350 MX

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350 MX

Tim Busby
I'm looking at a Reddich 350 Scrambles (MX) bike, late 50's with a
flange mounted barrel, as opposed to the typical barrel/head through
studs.
Question: Was this difference in top end construction unique to the
Scrambles bikes?

TIA

Tim
N.Z.

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Re: 350 MX

Pete Snidal

>I'm looking at a Reddich 350 Scrambles (MX) bike, late 50's with a
>flange mounted barrel, as opposed to the typical barrel/head through
>studs.
>Question: Was this difference in top end construction unique to the
>Scrambles bikes?

I had (and still have bits of) a '57 MX350 from the Redditch factory.
2 350s and 3 500s were imported into Vancouver for the '57 model
year.  None of them had a flange mount barrel - ie, they were all
just like the present-day Indian models in that regard.

What does the rest of the engine look like? Head the same?  I'm
having trouble imagining it.

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RE: 350 MX

Tim Busby
In reply to this post by Tim Busby
The rest of the motor looks identical to late 50's Bullet...

The barrel has a gap in between 2nd and 3rd fins to fit the nuts, which
appear to be 3/8" dia.

RADICAL cams!!! And strengthened con-rods, by the look of the small end of
the rod.

Actually, there are the makings of three bikes in all the parts that I was
looking at, all with the same configuration barrel/head set up.

The current owner recons that it was done to overcome stud stretching and
loss of compression with high comp +10-5 (?) pistons.

1 bike has been converted to 'road-race' (super-motard?) and has a precious
wee certificate timing the bike at 96.4mph.

Last raced about 30 years ago; incomplete, lots of rust and oxidized
alloy... :-(

 

Tim

N.Z.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Snidal [mailto:[hidden email]]
Subject: Re: [Enfield] 350 MX

 


>I'm looking at a Reddich 350 Scrambles (MX) bike, late 50's with a
>flange mounted barrel, as opposed to the typical barrel/head through
>studs.
>Question: Was this difference in top end construction unique to the
>Scrambles bikes?

I had (and still have bits of) a '57 MX350 from the Redditch factory.
2 350s and 3 500s were imported into Vancouver for the '57 model
year. None of them had a flange mount barrel - ie, they were all
just like the present-day Indian models in that regard.

What does the rest of the engine look like? Head the same? I'm
having trouble imagining it.

,_._,___



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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RE: 350 MX

indiceptor
In reply to this post by Tim Busby

G'day Tim,

In 40-something years of Enfielding, I've never heard of such a beast. Is
this definitely a Bullet bottom end, i.e. oil filler to the rear of the
barrel?

Regards,

Richard


>From: "Tim" <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: [hidden email]
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: [Enfield] 350 MX
>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 00:16:26 -0000
>
>I'm looking at a Reddich 350 Scrambles (MX) bike, late 50's with a
>flange mounted barrel, as opposed to the typical barrel/head through
>studs.
>Question: Was this difference in top end construction unique to the
>Scrambles bikes?
>
>TIA
>
>Tim
>N.Z.
>

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RE: 350 MX

Pete Snidal
In reply to this post by Tim Busby

>The current owner recons that it was done to overcome stud stretching and
>loss of compression with high comp +10-5 (?) pistons.

   I knew the two guys who bought the two 350MX Bullets in Vancouver
'57, and I once took
home and read the factory tuning instructions that came with them. 8
or 10 mimeographed
pages stapled into a booklet.  There were a number of charts -
gearing, compression ratios,
fuels, etc. I remember being impressed with the methanol specs, which
named 10:5 piston
- I think maybe that was the "Low" one - and that the chart went to
11 or 12 as well.
Recommended starting with a 400 main jet!

  The two MX350s in question had 9.5 or maybe even 10.5 pistons in
them running on
premium fuel - don't forget you could buy _gas_ in them days!  Anyone
I knew who was
building an engine considered 9.5:1 an "around town" CR.

   Anyway, point is that these engines didn't have the trick barrel
nut mod.  I still have most
of the engine of one of them.  Serial no. is 38919.  Close to
yours?  Before or after?
G2 I think -  I could check - shop is a block from home.fs

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RE: 350 MX

Tim Busby
In reply to this post by Tim Busby
100% factory std racing Bullet

I've only ever seen pics of them before.

 

Tim

N.Z.

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard McLeish [mailto:[hidden email]]
Subject: RE: [Enfield] 350 MX

 


G'day Tim,

In 40-something years of Enfielding, I've never heard of such a beast. Is
this definitely a Bullet bottom end, i.e. oil filler to the rear of the
barrel?

Regards,

Richard
_._,___



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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RE: 350 MX

indiceptor

Any chance of some pics, Tim?

Regards,

Richard


>From: Tim Busby <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: [hidden email]
>To: "'[hidden email]'" <[hidden email]>
>Subject: RE: [Enfield] 350 MX
>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 07:35:09 +1300
>
>100% factory std racing Bullet
>
>I've only ever seen pics of them before.
>
>
>
>Tim
>
>N.Z.
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Richard McLeish [mailto:[hidden email]]
>Subject: RE: [Enfield] 350 MX
>
>
>
>
>G'day Tim,
>
>In 40-something years of Enfielding, I've never heard of such a beast. Is
>this definitely a Bullet bottom end, i.e. oil filler to the rear of the
>barrel?
>
>Regards,
>
>Richard
>_._,___
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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RE: 350 MX

Tim Busby
In reply to this post by Tim Busby
Probably not....
I will get what info I can from the owner.

Tim
N.Z.

 [Enfield] 350 MX


Any chance of some pics, Tim?

Regards,

Richard


>From: Tim Busby <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: [hidden email]
>To: "'[hidden email]'" <[hidden email]>
>Subject: RE: [Enfield] 350 MX
>Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 07:35:09 +1300
>
>100% factory std racing Bullet
>
>I've only ever seen pics of them before.
>
>
>
>Tim
>
>N.Z.
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Richard McLeish [mailto:[hidden email]]
>Subject: RE: [Enfield] 350 MX
>
>
>
>
>G'day Tim,
>
>In 40-something years of Enfielding, I've never heard of such a beast. Is
>this definitely a Bullet bottom end, i.e. oil filler to the rear of the
>barrel?
>
>Regards,
>
>Richard
>_._,___
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

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Re: 350 MX

Tim Busby
In reply to this post by indiceptor
I have found out a little more about the 350 MX's
The bikes/motors are all early 1954 make, factory specials built on
the then new 500 bottom end. The reason for the flange mounted
barrels was not only due to different stud spacing between the 350
and 500 top ends. But also to allow the running of higher compression
pistons/power out put. (I have a pair of cams from one of the motors
so that I can 'clock' them...)
At least 6 of the bikes were imported into NZ in 1954, the last year
that Royal Enfiled were commercially imported to N.Z.
(All RE's post 54' in NZ are the result of private imports)
At that time the 350 bullets still used the older narrow (3/4")
conrod, and shorter timing side main bearings; hence the preference
for the new and much stronger 500 btm end for the 350 racers...
Still working on borrowing a camera.

Tim
N.Z.

--- In [hidden email], "Richard McLeish"
<karlgarinmodels@...> wrote:
>
>
> G'day Tim,
>
> In 40-something years of Enfielding, I've never heard of such a
beast. Is
> this definitely a Bullet bottom end, i.e. oil filler to the rear of
the
> barrel?
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard
>

> >Subject: [Enfield] 350 MX

> >
> >I'm looking at a Reddich 350 Scrambles (MX) bike, late 50's with a
> >flange mounted barrel, as opposed to the typical barrel/head
through
> >studs.
> >Question: Was this difference in top end construction unique to the
> >Scrambles bikes?
> >
> >TIA
> >
> >Tim
> >N.Z.


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Re: 350 MX

Pete Snidal

>I have found out a little more about the 350 MX's
>The bikes/motors are all early 1954 make, factory specials built on
>the then new 500 bottom end. The reason for the flange mounted
>barrels was not only due to different stud spacing between the 350
>and 500 top ends. But also to allow the running of higher compression
>pistons/power out put. (I have a pair of cams from one of the motors
>so that I can 'clock' them...)
>At least 6 of the bikes were imported into NZ in 1954, the last year
>that Royal Enfiled were commercially imported to N.Z.
>(All RE's post 54' in NZ are the result of private imports)
>At that time the 350 bullets still used the older narrow (3/4")
>conrod, and shorter timing side main bearings; hence the preference
>for the new and much stronger 500 btm end for the 350 racers...
>Still working on borrowing a camera.

In 1957, 2 350MX's and three 500s were brought into Vancouver.  I owned
two of them at different times, sadly sold the best one while going to college
in '61.  Tracked it down 5 years later, but it had been seriously butchered
by a "mechanic" more used to hot rod Chevvies. Long story, but I still have
the original bottom end, barrel, and head.  Timing gears and cams (which
were VERY radical!) were never re-located.  I'll take some pix of this one,
too.  Barrel mount to crankcase isn't flanged, though.  I also have an Indian
500 still apart, so I'll do some comparisons between these two, as well...

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Re: 350 MX

indiceptor
In reply to this post by Tim Busby

G'day Tim,

That's interesting. I remember reading, years ago, a piece written by Don
Morley about an ex-works trials bike he had owned and restored from a basket
case. He commented that there were no end of non-standard parts in the donk,
and his conclusion was that it was a pre-production machine using the
then-new 500 bottom end. I don't recall mention of a flanged barrel, though
I agree some sort of different arrangement would be necessary in view of the
stud spacing. It would be interesting to learn if there is anything noted in
the factory registers. Can you be sure that these were not an NZ-produced
conversion to get a hot 350 with a stronger bottom end?

Still, I'm surprised that, as far as I know, no mention of these machines
has ever been made public in the UK, particularly with the amount of
material published about Enfields in recent years. Thanks for the update,
though - hopefully you'll be able to sort some pics out in due course.

Regards,

Richard


>From: "Tim" <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: [hidden email]
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Enfield] 350 MX
>Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2007 20:14:51 -0000
>
>I have found out a little more about the 350 MX's
>The bikes/motors are all early 1954 make, factory specials built on
>the then new 500 bottom end. The reason for the flange mounted
>barrels was not only due to different stud spacing between the 350
>and 500 top ends. But also to allow the running of higher compression
>pistons/power out put. (I have a pair of cams from one of the motors
>so that I can 'clock' them...)
>At least 6 of the bikes were imported into NZ in 1954, the last year
>that Royal Enfiled were commercially imported to N.Z.
>(All RE's post 54' in NZ are the result of private imports)
>At that time the 350 bullets still used the older narrow (3/4")
>conrod, and shorter timing side main bearings; hence the preference
>for the new and much stronger 500 btm end for the 350 racers...
>Still working on borrowing a camera.
>
>Tim
>N.Z.
>
>--- In [hidden email], "Richard McLeish"
><karlgarinmodels@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > G'day Tim,
> >
> > In 40-something years of Enfielding, I've never heard of such a
>beast. Is
> > this definitely a Bullet bottom end, i.e. oil filler to the rear of
>the
> > barrel?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Richard
> >
>
> > >Subject: [Enfield] 350 MX
>
> > >
> > >I'm looking at a Reddich 350 Scrambles (MX) bike, late 50's with a
> > >flange mounted barrel, as opposed to the typical barrel/head
>through
> > >studs.
> > >Question: Was this difference in top end construction unique to the
> > >Scrambles bikes?
> > >
> > >TIA
> > >
> > >Tim
> > >N.Z.
>
>

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Re: 350 MX

Tim Busby
The motors definately have correct numbers on '500' btm ends, ex 1954.
While it is not at all impossible that they could have been local
made 'specials', if that was the case I reckon that the bikes would
still have had 500 numbers, or no engine numbers at all if they had
been assembled from 'spare-parts'???


Tim
N.Z.

 

 "Richard McLeish" wrote:

> Can you be sure that these were not an NZ-produced
> conversion to get a hot 350 with a stronger bottom end?
>
> Still, I'm surprised that, as far as I know, no mention of these
machines
> has ever been made public in the UK, particularly with the amount of
> material published about Enfields in recent years. Thanks for the
update,
> though - hopefully you'll be able to sort some pics out in due course.
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard
>

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Re: 350 MX

Pete Snidal
In reply to this post by indiceptor

>Still, I'm surprised that, as far as I know, no mention of these machines
>has ever been made public in the UK, particularly with the amount of
>material published about Enfields in recent years

I knew two fellas in Vancouver who bought brand new MX350s in
'57.  For what it's worth, here are my recollections:

         - There WAS a factory brochure showing a picture of the MX
350, and a cobby-looking
              piece of work it was. Came on the MKII frame (like the
Interceptor) with number plates,
              knobby tires, 21" front wheel, standard dual front
brake, alloy fenders, dual seat,
              high straight pipe with bologna cut -about 10" past the
rear axle.  Came with a kit of
              sprockets and such, and a tuning manual which consisted
of maybe a dozen sheets of
              mimeographed pearls of wisdom, gearing charts, etc.

            - Stock stuff was a chronometric tach mounted on the
non-nacelle front end, a 10TT9
               carburetor, - probably 1 1/8" as I recall, and they
shipped with a Lucas "competition"
               water-proof magneto, although my buddies ordered
theirs with Magdynos so they
               could ride them on the streets.  (Yes, with the
straight pipes!)  CR was I think 10:5 to
               1 - the tuning manual covered running on Methanol -
jetting and such, and recommended
               the 12:1 piston for this kind of work. Theirs came
with trick detatchable headlight,
               connected by a quick-disconnect plug mounted on the
frame under the front of the
               fuel tank, that had a stopper hanging on a brass chain
for keeping the mud out
               when the headlamp was disconnected.

               They had lots of brilliant polished alloy and chrome,
and were painted maroon
                everything that wasn't chrome or aluminum. Big "Built
Like a Gun" decal on
                the top of the tank.

             My friend and I were waiting for the troop train to take
us on a summer training
               cruise to a tank range in Alberta, and we were
startled awake by the sound of
               one of the brand-new 350s roaring into the back of the
train station - the owner
               was a CNR redcap and was a bit late for work that
day.  We ambled over and
               had a look at this thing.  I had my second Enfield at
home at the time - a beat-up
               old lightless J2 I'd gotten for the scrap price of
$20, and I just flat-out fell in love
               with this MX!  Met its owner and his buddy who'd
bought the clone a few months
               later when I joined the motorcycle club they were in.
Came to own them both
               in suceeding years.  Lovely bikes, went like greased lightnings.


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Re: 350 MX

indiceptor
In reply to this post by Tim Busby

G'day Tim,

Just to clarify what you are saying - what exactly do you mean by "correct
numbers on '500' bottom ends"? Are the numbers in the 500 series or the 350
series, and if the latter, with or without the G2 prefix?
Are you able/willing to provide the numbers so they can be checked against
the factory registers?

Regards,

Richard


>From: "Tim" <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: [hidden email]
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Enfield] 350 MX
>Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 23:59:30 -0000
>
>The motors definately have correct numbers on '500' btm ends, ex 1954.
>While it is not at all impossible that they could have been local
>made 'specials', if that was the case I reckon that the bikes would
>still have had 500 numbers, or no engine numbers at all if they had
>been assembled from 'spare-parts'???
>
>
>Tim
>N.Z.
>
>
>
>  "Richard McLeish" wrote:
>
> > Can you be sure that these were not an NZ-produced
> > conversion to get a hot 350 with a stronger bottom end?
> >
> > Still, I'm surprised that, as far as I know, no mention of these
>machines
> > has ever been made public in the UK, particularly with the amount of
> > material published about Enfields in recent years. Thanks for the
>update,
> > though - hopefully you'll be able to sort some pics out in due course.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Richard
> >
>

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Re: 350 MX

Rick Ferguson
In reply to this post by Pete Snidal
Pete wrote:
> I knew two fellas in Vancouver who bought brand new MX350s in
> '57.  For what it's worth, here are my recollections:

Pictures, man - we need pictures of these machines! Surely you must have
some in a shoe box somewhere!

Cheers
Rick F
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Re: 350 MX

Pete Snidal
At 06:29 AM 2/16/07, you wrote:
>Pete wrote:
> > I knew two fellas in Vancouver who bought brand new MX350s in
> > '57.  For what it's worth, here are my recollections:
>
>Pictures, man - we need pictures of these machines! Surely you must have
>some in a shoe box somewhere!

    Do you have a copy of my CD manual?  If so, there's a pic in the
intro of Ralph
and yrs truly at the end of the intro.  filename is jones2.jpg  We
were both much
sparkier then.  In our primes, ya might say....

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Re: 350 MX

indiceptor
In reply to this post by Pete Snidal

G'day Pete,

I remember you having a letter about these bikes published in The Gun many
years ago. As far as I have ever been able to ascertain, these late-50's
MX's were hopped-up but standard-design Bullet donks in the late (mark 2, as
you put it) frame.
These bikes Tim is talking about were several years earlier, and the big
interest from my corner is over the use of a flanged, bolted-down barrel,
and, presumably, head, as opposed to the standard Bullet long through studs.
Never heard mention of it anywhere else, and I'd like to learn as much as I
can.

Regards,

Richard


>From: Pete <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: [hidden email]
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: [Enfield] 350 MX
>Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 22:45:37 -0800
>
>
> >Still, I'm surprised that, as far as I know, no mention of these machines
> >has ever been made public in the UK, particularly with the amount of
> >material published about Enfields in recent years
>
>I knew two fellas in Vancouver who bought brand new MX350s in
>'57.  For what it's worth, here are my recollections:
>
>          - There WAS a factory brochure showing a picture of the MX
>350, and a cobby-looking
>               piece of work it was. Came on the MKII frame (like the
>Interceptor) with number plates,
>               knobby tires, 21" front wheel, standard dual front
>brake, alloy fenders, dual seat,
>               high straight pipe with bologna cut -about 10" past the
>rear axle.  Came with a kit of
>               sprockets and such, and a tuning manual which consisted
>of maybe a dozen sheets of
>               mimeographed pearls of wisdom, gearing charts, etc.
>
>             - Stock stuff was a chronometric tach mounted on the
>non-nacelle front end, a 10TT9
>                carburetor, - probably 1 1/8" as I recall, and they
>shipped with a Lucas "competition"
>                water-proof magneto, although my buddies ordered
>theirs with Magdynos so they
>                could ride them on the streets.  (Yes, with the
>straight pipes!)  CR was I think 10:5 to
>                1 - the tuning manual covered running on Methanol -
>jetting and such, and recommended
>                the 12:1 piston for this kind of work. Theirs came
>with trick detatchable headlight,
>                connected by a quick-disconnect plug mounted on the
>frame under the front of the
>                fuel tank, that had a stopper hanging on a brass chain
>for keeping the mud out
>                when the headlamp was disconnected.
>
>                They had lots of brilliant polished alloy and chrome,
>and were painted maroon
>                 everything that wasn't chrome or aluminum. Big "Built
>Like a Gun" decal on
>                 the top of the tank.
>
>              My friend and I were waiting for the troop train to take
>us on a summer training
>                cruise to a tank range in Alberta, and we were
>startled awake by the sound of
>                one of the brand-new 350s roaring into the back of the
>train station - the owner
>                was a CNR redcap and was a bit late for work that
>day.  We ambled over and
>                had a look at this thing.  I had my second Enfield at
>home at the time - a beat-up
>                old lightless J2 I'd gotten for the scrap price of
>$20, and I just flat-out fell in love
>                with this MX!  Met its owner and his buddy who'd
>bought the clone a few months
>                later when I joined the motorcycle club they were in.
>Came to own them both
>                in suceeding years.  Lovely bikes, went like greased
>lightnings.
>
>

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Re: 350 MX

Rougharse-Racing
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
In reply to this post by Pete Snidal
Sorry to open an ancient thread, I am very interested in any information regarding RE 350MX Bullets. I believe, from another of your posts, that you have a Bullet engine G2/389**.

I have a 1956 350 engine G2/381**, that has a pre-56 500 style bottom end with a 350 top end.
(I understand that the later alternator engines started at G2/38101.)
The main difference between my engine and the later 350's is that it has a non- auto-advance timing side and a non alternator drive side, like the earlier 500s, but has the small oval badge on the timing case rather than the large "Royal Enfield" cast into the case. (The crankcase halves are both numbered in the tens rather than three figures).

It is definitely a 350 and the I.D. numbers are unmolested.

The only similar engine I have seen is the one that is in the Johnny Britain works 350 HNP331 which is in the National Motorcycle Museum (UK).

I would be very interested if anyone has information or images of this type of engine.