Affects of Engine Vibration on Bullet

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Affects of Engine Vibration on Bullet

whttnpl
Hello,

I want to write about engine vibration and how it affects the bike.
The engine in a Royal Enfield Bullet is not rubber mounted in the
frame and so a lot of the vibration from the engine travels through
the frame affecting the bike and rider.

A few weeks ago I went for a short ride on my bike in the
countryside, after about 30 minutes I parked the bike, on the side
stand, with the engine running, (the reason for driving it was to
circulate the oil and warm the engine through as it's winter here
and my bike had been sitting in the garage for a week) as soon as I
parked the bike and removed my helmet I could hear a vibrating sound
coming from the side where the exhaust is fitted. Looking closely at
the exhaust I realised that the main bold that attaches the exhaust
to the bike frame had worked itself lose and fallen off. I carefully
drove the bike back home and at this moment it is sat in the garage
waiting for me to find a bolt so I can attach the exhaust properly.

My friend at work has a classic 500 Bullet, bought from new, which
has lost one of the bolts that attaches the number plate, and now I
have lost the main bolt that attaches the exhaust to the bike frame.
My question is, is it normal for nuts and bolts on these bikes to
vibrate themselves lose, and if it is then what nuts and bolts are
the main ones that should be checked on a regular basis?

I have read about people checking and tightening all the nuts and
bolts on their bike every day, but that was on old Indian bullets or
1950's Reditch bullets (in Gordon May's book "Overland to India" I
think he mentions going over his 1950's Bullet with a spanner
everyday, tightening all the nuts and bolts) not on modern Electra X
bullets or 2007 classic bullets. I would have thought on the bullets
they are producing today that there would be self-locking nuts,
which would have a resistance to loosening due to vibration.

Is it normal for nuts and bolts to vibrate themselves lose on these
bikes and does this mean that the new classic EFI bullet will also
need to be checked over with a spanner even though they say it is
maintenance free?

Paul (UK)



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Re: Affects of Engine Vibration on Bullet

rider_read
Hi Paul,

It is common for this to happen and I don't thinkage of design has
much to do with it.  I believe they are using more lock type nuts now,
however.  I have found a loose kick starter lever bolt and foot peg
bolt to date.  Many use the blue 'Locktite' which is liquid and holds
the nut on better; I should think you would be able to get something
similar from your auto parts dealer.

Lawrence

--- In [hidden email], "paul whitton" <whttnpl@...> wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> I want to write about engine vibration and how it affects the bike.
> The engine in a Royal Enfield Bullet is not rubber mounted in the
> frame and so a lot of the vibration from the engine travels through
> the frame affecting the bike and rider.
>
> A few weeks ago I went for a short ride on my bike in the
> countryside, after about 30 minutes I parked the bike, on the side
> stand, with the engine running, (the reason for driving it was to
> circulate the oil and warm the engine through as it's winter here
> and my bike had been sitting in the garage for a week) as soon as I
> parked the bike and removed my helmet I could hear a vibrating sound
> coming from the side where the exhaust is fitted. Looking closely at
> the exhaust I realised that the main bold that attaches the exhaust
> to the bike frame had worked itself lose and fallen off. I carefully
> drove the bike back home and at this moment it is sat in the garage
> waiting for me to find a bolt so I can attach the exhaust properly.
>
> My friend at work has a classic 500 Bullet, bought from new, which
> has lost one of the bolts that attaches the number plate, and now I
> have lost the main bolt that attaches the exhaust to the bike frame.
> My question is, is it normal for nuts and bolts on these bikes to
> vibrate themselves lose, and if it is then what nuts and bolts are
> the main ones that should be checked on a regular basis?
>
> I have read about people checking and tightening all the nuts and
> bolts on their bike every day, but that was on old Indian bullets or
> 1950's Reditch bullets (in Gordon May's book "Overland to India" I
> think he mentions going over his 1950's Bullet with a spanner
> everyday, tightening all the nuts and bolts) not on modern Electra X
> bullets or 2007 classic bullets. I would have thought on the bullets
> they are producing today that there would be self-locking nuts,
> which would have a resistance to loosening due to vibration.
>
> Is it normal for nuts and bolts to vibrate themselves lose on these
> bikes and does this mean that the new classic EFI bullet will also
> need to be checked over with a spanner even though they say it is
> maintenance free?
>
> Paul (UK)
>


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Re: Effects of Engine Vibration on Bullet

umrcc
All part of the fun and knowledge building process! Use spring
washers, fibre washers, locking nuts or a dab of loctite on the
thread as necessary.

Once you've found which nuts come lose (and there'll only be one or
two - OK, maybe three or four) use the appropriate method to secure
them and you'll not be troubled again. Going around tightening all
bolts every day is not necessary - although a quick visual check
before riding any bike is to be encouraged.

As someone who has owned many British singles from my 350 Enfield
Model G, to BSA B33, M21 and Panther 600, I've never had any bike
that had more than a handful of nuts that needed extra securing. Even
the Triumph 650 cc twins - after a really fast ride on some of these,
you'd be scared to pick up a glass, for fear that it would shatter in
your hand - only needed attention to a few common troublespots. I
think the worst I had was rear mudguard coming off on a Bonneville
and losing a gearlever on M21 (rode home through slow traffic in 4th
gear, but that's no sweat for an M21).

Alternatively, get yourself a nice smooth (characterless?) Japanese
bike and you'll not have the same worries - or fun - again...

Martin moderator

--- In [hidden email], "Lawrence" <abjlaw1@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> It is common for this to happen and I don't thinkage of design has
> much to do with it.  I believe they are using more lock type nuts
now,
> however.  I have found a loose kick starter lever bolt and foot peg
> bolt to date.  Many use the blue 'Locktite' which is liquid and
holds
> the nut on better; I should think you would be able to get something
> similar from your auto parts dealer.
>
> Lawrence
>
> --- In [hidden email], "paul whitton" <whttnpl@>
wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I want to write about engine vibration and how it affects the
bike.
> > The engine in a Royal Enfield Bullet is not rubber mounted in the
> > frame and so a lot of the vibration from the engine travels
through
> > the frame affecting the bike and rider.
> >
> > A few weeks ago I went for a short ride on my bike in the
> > countryside, after about 30 minutes I parked the bike, on the
side
> > stand, with the engine running, (the reason for driving it was to
> > circulate the oil and warm the engine through as it's winter here
> > and my bike had been sitting in the garage for a week) as soon as
I
> > parked the bike and removed my helmet I could hear a vibrating
sound
> > coming from the side where the exhaust is fitted. Looking closely
at
> > the exhaust I realised that the main bold that attaches the
exhaust
> > to the bike frame had worked itself lose and fallen off. I
carefully
> > drove the bike back home and at this moment it is sat in the
garage
> > waiting for me to find a bolt so I can attach the exhaust
properly.
> >
> > My friend at work has a classic 500 Bullet, bought from new,
which
> > has lost one of the bolts that attaches the number plate, and now
I
> > have lost the main bolt that attaches the exhaust to the bike
frame.
> > My question is, is it normal for nuts and bolts on these bikes to
> > vibrate themselves lose, and if it is then what nuts and bolts
are
> > the main ones that should be checked on a regular basis?
> >
> > I have read about people checking and tightening all the nuts and
> > bolts on their bike every day, but that was on old Indian bullets
or
> > 1950's Reditch bullets (in Gordon May's book "Overland to India"
I
> > think he mentions going over his 1950's Bullet with a spanner
> > everyday, tightening all the nuts and bolts) not on modern
Electra X
> > bullets or 2007 classic bullets. I would have thought on the
bullets
> > they are producing today that there would be self-locking nuts,
> > which would have a resistance to loosening due to vibration.
> >
> > Is it normal for nuts and bolts to vibrate themselves lose on
these
> > bikes and does this mean that the new classic EFI bullet will
also
> > need to be checked over with a spanner even though they say it is
> > maintenance free?
> >
> > Paul (UK)
> >
>


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Re: Affects of Engine Vibration on Bullet

dashrugga
In reply to this post by whttnpl
Yes thats probly so. Lost one of the seat studs with nut. I'm
still scratching my head over how it managed to work it's self
all the way out over such a short period of time.
Pulled the PAV and replaced with one of those oil drain plugs.
From Advance Auto.
Ran rather badly for a while, till I figured out it had worked
it's self loose. Blue threadlock is wonderfull stuff.
AHH, good times.

--- In [hidden email], "paul whitton" <whttnpl@...>
wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> I want to write about engine vibration and how it affects the bike.
> The engine in a Royal Enfield Bullet is not rubber mounted in the
> frame and so a lot of the vibration from the engine travels through
> the frame affecting the bike and rider.
>
> A few weeks ago I went for a short ride on my bike in the
> countryside, after about 30 minutes I parked the bike, on the side
> stand, with the engine running, (the reason for driving it was to
> circulate the oil and warm the engine through as it's winter here
> and my bike had been sitting in the garage for a week) as soon as I
> parked the bike and removed my helmet I could hear a vibrating
sound
> coming from the side where the exhaust is fitted. Looking closely
at
> the exhaust I realised that the main bold that attaches the exhaust
> to the bike frame had worked itself lose and fallen off. I
carefully
> drove the bike back home and at this moment it is sat in the garage
> waiting for me to find a bolt so I can attach the exhaust properly.
>
> My friend at work has a classic 500 Bullet, bought from new, which
> has lost one of the bolts that attaches the number plate, and now I
> have lost the main bolt that attaches the exhaust to the bike
frame.
> My question is, is it normal for nuts and bolts on these bikes to
> vibrate themselves lose, and if it is then what nuts and bolts are
> the main ones that should be checked on a regular basis?
>
> I have read about people checking and tightening all the nuts and
> bolts on their bike every day, but that was on old Indian bullets
or
> 1950's Reditch bullets (in Gordon May's book "Overland to India" I
> think he mentions going over his 1950's Bullet with a spanner
> everyday, tightening all the nuts and bolts) not on modern Electra
X
> bullets or 2007 classic bullets. I would have thought on the
bullets

> they are producing today that there would be self-locking nuts,
> which would have a resistance to loosening due to vibration.
>
> Is it normal for nuts and bolts to vibrate themselves lose on these
> bikes and does this mean that the new classic EFI bullet will also
> need to be checked over with a spanner even though they say it is
> maintenance free?
>
> Paul (UK)
>


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Re: Re: Affects of Engine Vibration on Bullet

victortrry
I have BSA, Triumph, Enfield and Yamaha and if occasionally you don't get the spanner out things do loosen off, if there is no spring washer it is a good idea to put one on, it will stop the bolt or nut unscrewing.

Victor
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: dashrugga
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 6:30 AM
  Subject: [Enfield] Re: Affects of Engine Vibration on Bullet


  Yes thats probly so. Lost one of the seat studs with nut. I'm
  still scratching my head over how it managed to work it's self
  all the way out over such a short period of time.
  Pulled the PAV and replaced with one of those oil drain plugs.
  From Advance Auto.
  Ran rather badly for a while, till I figured out it had worked
  it's self loose. Blue threadlock is wonderfull stuff.
  AHH, good times.

  --- In [hidden email], "paul whitton" <whttnpl@...>
  wrote:
  >
  > Hello,
  >
  > I want to write about engine vibration and how it affects the bike.
  > The engine in a Royal Enfield Bullet is not rubber mounted in the
  > frame and so a lot of the vibration from the engine travels through
  > the frame affecting the bike and rider.
  >
  > A few weeks ago I went for a short ride on my bike in the
  > countryside, after about 30 minutes I parked the bike, on the side
  > stand, with the engine running, (the reason for driving it was to
  > circulate the oil and warm the engine through as it's winter here
  > and my bike had been sitting in the garage for a week) as soon as I
  > parked the bike and removed my helmet I could hear a vibrating
  sound
  > coming from the side where the exhaust is fitted. Looking closely
  at
  > the exhaust I realised that the main bold that attaches the exhaust
  > to the bike frame had worked itself lose and fallen off. I
  carefully
  > drove the bike back home and at this moment it is sat in the garage
  > waiting for me to find a bolt so I can attach the exhaust properly.
  >
  > My friend at work has a classic 500 Bullet, bought from new, which
  > has lost one of the bolts that attaches the number plate, and now I
  > have lost the main bolt that attaches the exhaust to the bike
  frame.
  > My question is, is it normal for nuts and bolts on these bikes to
  > vibrate themselves lose, and if it is then what nuts and bolts are
  > the main ones that should be checked on a regular basis?
  >
  > I have read about people checking and tightening all the nuts and
  > bolts on their bike every day, but that was on old Indian bullets
  or
  > 1950's Reditch bullets (in Gordon May's book "Overland to India" I
  > think he mentions going over his 1950's Bullet with a spanner
  > everyday, tightening all the nuts and bolts) not on modern Electra
  X
  > bullets or 2007 classic bullets. I would have thought on the
  bullets
  > they are producing today that there would be self-locking nuts,
  > which would have a resistance to loosening due to vibration.
  >
  > Is it normal for nuts and bolts to vibrate themselves lose on these
  > bikes and does this mean that the new classic EFI bullet will also
  > need to be checked over with a spanner even though they say it is
  > maintenance free?
  >
  > Paul (UK)
  >


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: Re: Affects of Engine Vibration on Bullet

Pete Snidal
In reply to this post by dashrugga

>Pulled the PAV and replaced with one of those oil drain plugs.
> From Advance Auto.

In that case, you won't need your cat converter bodge any more.
Have you taken it out yet? It's spot-welded inside the end of your
exhaust pipe just ahead of the muffler. A serious and severe
restriction that was a distinctly non-artful dodge.  It's so
restrictive that you can remove the muffler entirely and likely
still get away with the noise factor if you ride sensibly.  But
better it out and the muffler back in place.

The cat converter is to burn all those disgusting unburnt
hydrocarbons that escaped your hi-e engine, and the pac
was supposed to provide the air for the combustion. Sure!



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Re: Affects of Engine Vibration on Bullet

cjayheff
--- In [hidden email], Pete Snidal <snidey@...> wrote:
> It's so
> restrictive that you can remove the muffler entirely and likely
> still get away with the noise factor if you ride sensibly.  

I don't know Pete. I rode mine for awhile like that and it was damn
loud. Probably because the pipe basically ended at the heel of my right
foot.

CJay

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Re: Re: Affects of Engine Vibration on Bullet

Pete Snidal

> > It's so
> > restrictive that you can remove the muffler entirely and likely
> > still get away with the noise factor if you ride sensibly.
>
>I don't know Pete. I rode mine for awhile like that and it was damn
>loud. Probably because the pipe basically ended at the heel of my right
>foot.

Thanks for that!  Waxing enthusiastic again; actually just attempting to
point out the extra restriction of the thing.  Might be interesting to check
it out with proper pipe length, though.  ie, an extension to bring total pipe
length to 46" or so - about to rear axle.  The change in resonant frequency
might bring it down to quiet, too.

But mainly, it's gotta come out of there.



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Re: Affects of Engine Vibration on Bullet

dashrugga
In reply to this post by Pete Snidal
It's all replaced with classic exhaust and short muffler.
At any rate, there was no Cat in the pipe, as I've seen
pictured, with the 3 holes in it. It had a short tube welded
inside that reminded me of a cheese grater.

--- In [hidden email], Pete Snidal <snidey@...> wrote:

>
>
> >Pulled the PAV and replaced with one of those oil drain plugs.
> > From Advance Auto.
>
> In that case, you won't need your cat converter bodge any more.
> Have you taken it out yet? It's spot-welded inside the end of your
> exhaust pipe just ahead of the muffler. A serious and severe
> restriction that was a distinctly non-artful dodge.  It's so
> restrictive that you can remove the muffler entirely and likely
> still get away with the noise factor if you ride sensibly.  But
> better it out and the muffler back in place.
>
> The cat converter is to burn all those disgusting unburnt
> hydrocarbons that escaped your hi-e engine, and the pac
> was supposed to provide the air for the combustion. Sure!
>


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Re: Re: Affects of Engine Vibration on Bullet

Pete Snidal

>It's all replaced with classic exhaust and short muffler.
>At any rate, there was no Cat in the pipe, as I've seen
>pictured, with the 3 holes in it. It had a short tube welded
>inside that reminded me of a cheese grater.

Oh, you mean the cat converter! (grin)



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Re: Affects of Engine Vibration on Bullet. > Hot Tube 'cat'

Royalenfield
In reply to this post by dashrugga
Every one calls it a 'cat', but it is really only a simple Hot Tube.
Soaks up heat (and power) to burn unburnt fuel that enters the pipe on
the overrun.
The silly thing about them is that they strangle the power, and cause
the bike to use more fuel than with out it, BUT the nasty unburnt CO
and NO are reduced.
The engine actually is more efficient with out it as the total fuel
consumption per Km/Mile traveled is less.
The PAV and Hot Tube solution to polution is by dilution; it only
functions on the over-run. But when you look at the total energy used
per KM traveled the world is better off with out it.
!!!???

Tim
N.Z.


-- In [hidden email], "dashrugga" <shrugger@...> wrote:
>
> It's all replaced with classic exhaust and short muffler.
> At any rate, there was no Cat in the pipe, as I've seen
> pictured, with the 3 holes in it. It had a short tube welded
> inside that reminded me of a cheese grater.
>
>