Heavy oil consumption ?

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Heavy oil consumption ?

Gerry-43
Hi Guy's & Gal's,

Having just spent a week touring the lakes on my 1996 500 classic, taking in some 930 miles by the time I got home I was wondering what is a reasonable oil consumption for such a journey ?.

Apart from killing a spark plug & the flasher unit packing up due to being half full of muddy water (well it did rain a little over the week), the only other issue was that the engine got through a litre of oil !.

This is the first long run the bike has had since it came into my ownership so I'm not sure what to expect oil consumption wise, having said that it seems a bit excessive to me.

Any input about oil consumption will be gratefully received.

Cheers, Gerry.


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Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

Bare-2
Sounds a bit excessive to me, too. You didn't mention how many miles is
on it, but sounds like it's due for a top end job.
Bare

the only other issue was that the engine got through a litre of oil !.

This is the first long run the bike has had since it came into my
ownership so I'm not sure what to expect oil consumption wise, having
said that it seems a bit excessive to me.

Any input about oil consumption will be gratefully received.

Cheers, Gerry.


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Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

Gerry-43


--- In [hidden email], Bare <barenekd@...> wrote:

>
> Sounds a bit excessive to me, too. You didn't mention how many miles is
> on it, but sounds like it's due for a top end job.
> Bare
>
> the only other issue was that the engine got through a litre of oil !.
>
> This is the first long run the bike has had since it came into my
> ownership so I'm not sure what to expect oil consumption wise, having
> said that it seems a bit excessive to me.
>
> Any input about oil consumption will be gratefully received.
>
> Cheers, Gerry.
>
It had done 7805 miles from new before the trip.

Cheers, Gerry.

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Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

Bunty Golightly
In reply to this post by Gerry-43
It all depends old boy .
Whether you were thrashing the old girl or puttering along nicely ,whether you had sustained running at high rpm , poor quality oil or jolly good stuff ,lots of variables - don't yer see .
Air cooled single cylinder engines are designed to use a bit of oil and at 7800 miles with only short runs ,she may be barely run in -  by jove. [ or completely knackered - haar haaaar haaaaaaaaaaaaaar!!]
You could do a compression check to get an idea of barrel or piston ring wear - quite so .Whiteish grey smoke under load is another sign .
Or check for a wonky valve guide by watching for smoke at start up and also look for smoke when snapping the throttle shut at reasonably high rpm .  
Jolly good fun eh what !
Another cause could be a dirt particle between the oil pump return disc and the housing - beastly thing .
Breather's OK one supposes ? - good show .

Nearly 500 miles per pint is not too bad , my own consumption is about two pints of Fornicator's Finest Ale per 50 miles regardless of rpm .

Cheers !
Your servant ,
Maj Bunty Golightly MBH , Defender of the Kickstart , Companion of the Royal Floatchamber , OC The Duchess of Cambridge's Own Brassiere Deployment Brigade .

--- In [hidden email], "gvinrad" <gerry@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Guy's & Gal's,
>
> Having just spent a week touring the lakes on my 1996 500 classic, taking in some 930 miles by the time I got home I was wondering what is a reasonable oil consumption for such a journey ?.
>
> Apart from killing a spark plug & the flasher unit packing up due to being half full of muddy water (well it did rain a little over the week), the only other issue was that the engine got through a litre of oil !.
>
> This is the first long run the bike has had since it came into my ownership so I'm not sure what to expect oil consumption wise, having said that it seems a bit excessive to me.
>
> Any input about oil consumption will be gratefully received.
>
> Cheers, Gerry.
>


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Re: Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

P Snidal
In reply to this post by Bare-2
 

At 09:26 AM 9/17/2012, you wrote:

Sounds a bit excessive to me, too. You didn't mention how many miles is
on it, but sounds like it's due for a top end job.
Bare

Sudden increases in oil consumption -toward heavy - is often a sign of imminent piston collapse.  This from my manual:

----------

A Word On Pistons

Although the Indian 500 Bullet is a modification of the original Indian 350, the factory uses a an outsourced piston. Differing from the 350 piston, the 500 unit has a controversial reputation. Piston failures - only with the 500s - have been reported frequently on the various internet fora, and extra caution is advised in examination and in deciding on replacement.

Some notes from Tim Busby, whose experience as a rider/mechanic/dealer in New Zealand, have proven invaluable to many an owner. Here are some of his remarks from the Bulletech yahoogroup :
    "If the oil ring is tight in its groove, or shows ANY sign of wear in the form of uneven BRIGHT SPOTS on the its top or bottom, and/or variation in thickness of the oil ring or its groove. REPLACE the piston!!"
    "Unfortunately, EVERY OEM 500 piston I have examined that has done over 4000km has been in various stages of collapse; incipient failure! Over the last two years I have replaced eight 500 pistons, and seen the results (extensive damage) of three piston crown separations. Also closely check the piston for any signs of piston slap; any clean metal fore and aft above the top compression ring. Piston slap accelerates the early demise of the piston. As the piston rocks and slaps, the skirt deforms, causing the oil ring groove to close up, eventually the piston crown pulls apart through the oil ring groove. (There are several stress risers points in the piston as a result of the machining of the oil drain slot in behind the oil ring groove.)"
    "And check the piston for any sign of running crooked in the bore; diagonal wear pattern on the skirt thrust face; or much worse, signs of wear extending all the way around the skirt... If it does show signs of diagonal wear check that the barrel has indeed been bored square, if it hasn't, get it re-bored. If the barrel is true and square, then either the rod is bent or the crank is out of alignment (occasionally the two flywheel halves don't even have the same stroke!) in which event the timing side roller bearing usually fails first, closely followed by the drive side roller."

As is the case with most engines, there are other sources for pistons for the 500 Bullet. One such alternative is supplied by JP Pistons, of Australia. Part number JP0582. The astute reader will doubtless conclude that Mr. Busby orders few factory pistons, preferring instead the JP offering. Other mechanics also report inconsistency in taper and cam, stress risers in the oil drain slot, weak crown, a tendency to distort well before they actually break, and a number of other problems. In use, they appear often to have a tendency toward partial seizure at the crown, which, combined with a fundamental weakness due to excessive size of the oil drain slot (at the base of the bottom ring land), bring about failure by the piston being pulled apart at higher engine speeds.

Tim may also be quoted as saying;
    "I have eight distorted ones you are welcome to inspect, and three multi piece decapitated pistons..."

Consequently, the 500 piston should be examined carefully, replaced if there's any doubt at all, and probably with an other-source piston, such as the JP offering, which appears at this writing to be getting much better reviews. Hitchcock's M/C in England also supply an aftermarket piston with good reviews - check with your national distributor for alternatives.

And if you're replacing the piston, especially in the case of a collateral re-bore, don't forget to raise your throttle needle a notch - a richer mixture makes for cooler running - during the run-in period.
---------------

'nuff said...
ps www.enfield.20m.com

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Re: Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

Gerry-43
Okay gents, at the beginning of my trip to the lakes the speedo was
showing 7805 miles, I bought the bike earlier this year with 7045 miles
on the clock. It had a new European manufactured piston fitted into it
at 7000 miles, because it had holed the original Indian piston due to a
far to lean mixture set up in a 32mm mk2 concentric. The replacement
piston was purchased by the previous owner from Hitchcocks, he also
replaced the 32mm concentric with a new 30mm concentric which matches
the gas flowing work that was done on the head by the previous owner to
him. So when I got the bike I had to complete the last 450 miles of the
running in period, during this period I discovered that the bike was
still running way too lean. So I carefully set up the carb making one
change at a time until I got it tuned in to the best setting for general
running conditions, then I completed the 500 mile running in period
before easing up the speeds & length of the increased running speeds. I
must also mention that as well as the carb being too lean the timing was
a mile out, so far in fact that I had to move the distributor drive gear
by 2 teeth in the timing chest in order to get the points backing plate
into the centre of adjustment in its slots again.

Cheers, Gerry.

On 18/09/12 18:01, P Snidal wrote:

>
>
> At 09:26 AM 9/17/2012, you wrote:
>> Sounds a bit excessive to me, too. You didn't mention how many miles is
>> on it, but sounds like it's due for a top end job.
>> Bare
>
> Sudden increases in oil consumption -toward heavy - is often a sign of
> imminent piston collapse.  This from my manual:
>
> ----------
>
>
>       *A Word On Pistons*
>
> *Although the Indian 500 Bullet is a modification of the original
> Indian 350, the factory uses a an outsourced piston. Differing from
> the 350 piston, the 500 unit has a controversial reputation. Piston
> failures - only with the 500s - have been reported frequently on the
> various internet fora, and extra caution is advised in examination and
> in deciding on replacement.
>
> Some notes from Tim Busby, whose experience as a rider/mechanic/dealer
> in New Zealand, have proven invaluable to many an owner. Here are some
> of his remarks from the Bulletech yahoogroup :
>
>     "If the oil ring is tight in its groove, or shows ANY sign of wear
>     in the form of uneven BRIGHT SPOTS on the its top or bottom,
>     and/or variation in thickness of the oil ring or its groove.
>     REPLACE the piston!!"
>     "Unfortunately, EVERY OEM 500 piston I have examined that has done
>     over 4000km has been in various stages of collapse; incipient
>     failure! Over the last two years I have replaced eight 500
>     pistons, and seen the results (extensive damage) of three piston
>     crown separations. Also closely check the piston for any signs of
>     piston slap; any clean metal fore and aft above the top
>     compression ring. Piston slap accelerates the early demise of the
>     piston. As the piston rocks and slaps, the skirt deforms, causing
>     the oil ring groove to close up, eventually the piston crown pulls
>     apart through the oil ring groove. (There are several stress
>     risers points in the piston as a result of the machining of the
>     oil drain slot in behind the oil ring groove.)"
>     "And check the piston for any sign of running crooked in the bore;
>     diagonal wear pattern on the skirt thrust face; or much worse,
>     signs of wear extending all the way around the skirt... If it does
>     show signs of diagonal wear check that the barrel has indeed been
>     bored square, if it hasn't, get it re-bored. If the barrel is true
>     and square, then either the rod is bent or the crank is out of
>     alignment (occasionally the two flywheel halves don't even have
>     the same stroke!) in which event the timing side roller bearing
>     usually fails first, closely followed by the drive side roller."
>
> As is the case with most engines, there are other sources for pistons
> for the 500 Bullet. One such alternative is supplied by JP Pistons, of
> Australia. <http://www.jp.com.au/JPistons.html>Part number JP0582. The
> astute reader will doubtless conclude that Mr. Busby orders few
> factory pistons, preferring instead the JP offering. Other mechanics
> also report inconsistency in taper and cam, stress risers in the oil
> drain slot, weak crown, a tendency to distort well before they
> actually break, and a number of other problems. In use, they appear
> often to have a tendency toward partial seizure at the crown, which,
> combined with a fundamental weakness due to excessive size of the oil
> drain slot (at the base of the bottom ring land), bring about failure
> by the piston being pulled apart at higher engine speeds.
>
> Tim may also be quoted as saying;
>
>     "I have eight distorted ones you are welcome to inspect, and three
>     multi piece decapitated pistons..."
>
> Consequently, the 500 piston should be examined carefully, replaced if
> there's any doubt at all, and probably with an other-source piston,
> such as the JP offering, which appears at this writing to be getting
> much better reviews. Hitchcock's M/C in England also supply an
> aftermarket piston with good reviews - check with your national
> distributor for alternatives.
>
> And if you're replacing the piston, especially in the case of a
> collateral re-bore, don't forget to raise your throttle needle a notch
> - a richer mixture makes for cooler running - during the run-in period.
> ---------------
>
> 'nuff said...
> ps www.enfield.20m.com <http://www.enfield.20m.com/> *
>
>

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Re: Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

Graham Swingland
It sounds as if the rings have not bedded in yet. Modern oils are so good the rings may never run in ,it has been suggested that the cheapest oil should be used for 1000 miles  to get over this problem. Graham




________________________________
 From: Gerry <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, 19 September 2012, 9:57
Subject: Re: [Enfield] Re: Heavy oil consumption ?
 

 


Okay gents, at the beginning of my trip to the lakes the speedo was showing 7805 miles, I bought the bike earlier this year with 7045 miles on the clock. It had a new European manufactured piston fitted into it at 7000 miles, because it had holed the original Indian piston due to a far to lean mixture set up in a 32mm mk2 concentric. The replacement piston was purchased by the previous owner from Hitchcocks, he also replaced the 32mm concentric with a new 30mm concentric which matches the gas flowing work that was done on the head by the previous owner to him. So when I got the bike I had to complete the last 450 miles of the running in period, during this period I discovered that the bike was still running way too lean. So I carefully set up the carb making one change at a time until I got it tuned in to the best setting for general running conditions, then I completed the 500 mile running in period before easing up the speeds & length of the increased
 running speeds. I must also mention that as well as the carb being too lean the timing was a mile out, so far in fact that I had to move the distributor drive gear by 2 teeth in the timing chest in order to get the points backing plate into the centre of adjustment in its slots again.

Cheers, Gerry.


On 18/09/12 18:01, P Snidal wrote:

 At 09:26 AM 9/17/2012, you wrote:
>
>Sounds a bit excessive to me, too. You didn't mention how many miles is
>>on it, but sounds like it's due for a top end job.
>>Bare
>Sudden increases in oil consumption -toward heavy - is often a
      sign of
      imminent piston collapse.  This from my manual:
>
>----------
>
>
>A Word On PistonsAlthough the Indian 500 Bullet is a modification of the original Indian 350, the factory uses a an outsourced piston. Differing from the 350 piston, the 500 unit has a controversial reputation. Piston failures - only with the 500s - have been reported frequently on the various internet fora, and extra caution is advised in examination and in deciding on replacement.
>
>Some notes from Tim Busby, whose experience as a
        rider/mechanic/dealer in
        New Zealand, have proven invaluable to many an owner. Here are
        some of
        his remarks from the Bulletech yahoogroup : As is the case with most engines, there are other sources for pistons for the 500 Bullet. One such alternative is supplied by JP Pistons, of Australia. Part number JP0582. The astute reader will doubtless conclude that Mr. Busby orders few factory pistons, preferring instead the JP offering. Other mechanics also report inconsistency in taper and cam, stress risers in the oil drain slot, weak crown, a tendency to distort well before they actually break, and a number of other problems. In use, they appear often to have a tendency toward partial seizure at the crown, which, combined with a fundamental weakness due to excessive size of the oil drain slot (at the base of the bottom ring land), bring about failure by the piston being pulled apart at higher engine speeds.
>
>Tim may also be quoted as saying;  Consequently, the 500 piston should be examined carefully, replaced if there's any doubt at all, and probably with an other-source piston, such as the JP offering, which appears at this writing to be getting much better reviews. Hitchcock's M/C in England also supply an aftermarket piston with good reviews - check with your national distributor for alternatives.
>
>And if you're replacing the piston, especially in the case of a
        collateral re-bore, don't forget to raise your throttle needle a
        notch -
        a richer mixture makes for cooler running - during the run-in
        period.
>---------------
>
>'nuff said...
>ps www.enfield.20m.com  



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Re: Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

P Snidal
In reply to this post by Gerry-43

>I bought the bike earlier this year with 7045 miles on the clock. It
>had a new European manufactured piston fitted into it at 7000 miles,

OK!  I think we can disregard my previous suggestions about possible
piston failure!
Your problem could be break-in; the first 1000 miles after a new
piston could use a lot of oil - especially if the 2nd piston was
still original size and the original bore was re- honed.
Honing is ONLY for freshly oversized bores, but there's an old wive's
tale that you have to hone a bore when replacing rings.  Crazy, but
true.  If that's what happened, you can count on an extra 2-3 thou
minimum extra piston clearance once it wears in - and 3 times that in
ring gap!  If you end up replacing the rings again, DON'T hone the
damn bore!  (Unless you've had to rebore and pop for an oversize piston.)

>because it had holed the original Indian piston due to a far to lean
>mixture set up in a 32mm mk2 concentric. The replacement piston was
>purchased by the previous owner from Hitchcocks, he also replaced
>the 32mm concentric with a new 30mm concentric which matches the gas
>flowing work that was done on the head by the previous owner to him.

Good for him!  Over-carbureting is fool trick #2.  At least he didn't
fall for that one - although 32 might not have been
excessive.  Still, for gas flow....

>So when I got the bike I had to complete the last 450 miles of the
>running in period, during this period I discovered that the bike was
>still running way too lean. So I carefully set up the carb making
>one change at a time until I got it tuned in to the best setting for
>general running conditions, then I completed the 500 mile running in
>period before easing up the speeds & length of the increased running speeds.

DO bear in mind that the most important carb ranges for tuning are
1/4-3/4 (needle) and 3/4-Full (main jet.)  They're the ones where
it's working hardest, and hence the ones most likely to blow pistons.

>I must also mention that as well as the carb being too lean the
>timing was a mile out, so far in fact that I had to move the
>distributor drive gear by 2 teeth in the timing chest in order to
>get the points backing plate into the centre of adjustment in its slots again.

Check that carefully!  Were you getting spark knock/ping?  If it was
too advanced by that far, you'd've HAD to be getting ping.  If that
retarded, the pipe should be blue back to the muffler!

Careful tuning of carb and timing is REALLY important in air-cooled
engines.  And they offer the latitude to do some real damage if you
don't get it right!

Good luck with it!
ps www.enfield.20m.com


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Re: Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

Gerry-43
In reply to this post by Gerry-43
Hi Pete,

When I bought the bike the previous owner was having real difficulty
starting it, it took a lot of kicking & if it did start it didn't run for
more than a few seconds before coughing & cutting out.

I was assured that the timing was spot on as it had been set up using a
dial gauge whilst fitting the Boyer Bransdon points assisted electronic
ignition, I picked it up cheap as the owner was fed up with not being able
to get it running properly & its poor starting.

After removing the distributor cover & discovering that the points plate
was at one extreme end of the adjustment (fully to the right) this set
alarm bells ringing, so it was out the dial gauge and check the timing.

Instead of it being set to 0.8mm BTDC it was actually set to 0.44mm ATDC,
with no adjustment left to correct it. This is when I had to remove the
timing cover & move the distributor gear by 2 teeth, I was then able to set
the points plate in the centre of its adjustment. It then only required
moving by a very small amount to be correct, I guess sometimes people think
they have something right when actually they don't !.

This cured the poor starting issues, but it still coughed & cut out after a
few seconds. After a bit more investigation I discovered some insulation
had been broken off the top of the coil where the HT lead goes in, the
rubber boot was stopping short of this and it was shorting out to the coil
case & stopping the engine. As a temporary fix until I could get a new coil
I fitted a longer rubber boot which covered this up, its held down by a
ty-rap so it can't ride up & this cured the problem it now ticks over a treat.

I don't know if the bore was honed before the new piston was fitted, but I
think I was told it was a standard piston that was put in. As for the ring
gaps again I don't know as I didn't fit them, the only way to find out is
to take off the top end I guess but I'm not doing that as its otherwise
running fine.

It has been suggested to me that there are 2 positions that the oil
dipstick can be placed in, if turned fully to the right it becomes tightly
seated and forms a complete seal. I have been told that this is a position
only to be used for transit or long term storage, this is where mine was
set to when I got the bike & consequently where I have been putting it
after topping up & checking oil levels. I'm further informed that if the
engine is run in this position then the crankcases will become pressurized
and the force the engine to breath heavily, the oil level will then drop
quicker & require topping up more often giving the illusion that it is
burning more oil. I'm told that the dipstick should be in the other
(partially open) position for normal running & that this could be my
problem ?, is this correct as I have not seen mention of it in any manuals
that I have come across.

What's your opinion Pete ?,

Cheers, Gerry.  
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Re: Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

Jorge Gonzalez-6
In reply to this post by Graham Swingland
You may have heard of him.
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm 

 
1957 BMW R50
1959 Norton Dominator 99
1965 Royal Enfield Interceptor Deluxe


________________________________
 From: Graham Swingland <[hidden email]>
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Enfield] Re: Heavy oil consumption ?
 

 
It sounds as if the rings have not bedded in yet. Modern oils are so good the rings may never run in ,it has been suggested that the cheapest oil should be used for 1000 miles  to get over this problem. Graham




________________________________
 From: Gerry <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, 19 September 2012, 9:57
Subject: Re: [Enfield] Re: Heavy oil consumption ?
 



Okay gents, at the beginning of my trip to the lakes the speedo was showing 7805 miles, I bought the bike earlier this year with 7045 miles on the clock. It had a new European manufactured piston fitted into it at 7000 miles, because it had holed the original Indian piston due to a far to lean mixture set up in a 32mm mk2 concentric. The replacement piston was purchased by the previous owner from Hitchcocks, he also replaced the 32mm concentric with a new 30mm concentric which matches the gas flowing work that was done on the head by the previous owner to him. So when I got the bike I had to complete the last 450 miles of the running in period, during this period I discovered that the bike was still running way too lean. So I carefully set up the carb making one change at a time until I got it tuned in to the best setting for general running conditions, then I completed the 500 mile running in period before easing up the speeds & length of the increased
 running speeds. I must also mention that as well as the carb being too lean the timing was a mile out, so far in fact that I had to move the distributor drive gear by 2 teeth in the timing chest in order to get the points backing plate into the centre of adjustment in its slots again.

Cheers, Gerry.


On 18/09/12 18:01, P Snidal wrote:

At 09:26 AM 9/17/2012, you wrote:
>
>Sounds a bit excessive to me, too. You didn't mention how many miles is
>>on it, but sounds like it's due for a top end job.
>>Bare
>Sudden increases in oil consumption -toward heavy - is often a
      sign of
      imminent piston collapse.  This from my manual:
>
>----------
>
>
>A Word On PistonsAlthough the Indian 500 Bullet is a modification of the original Indian 350, the factory uses a an outsourced piston. Differing from the 350 piston, the 500 unit has a controversial reputation. Piston failures - only with the 500s - have been reported frequently on the various internet fora, and extra caution is advised in examination and in deciding on replacement.
>
>Some notes from Tim Busby, whose experience as a
        rider/mechanic/dealer in
        New Zealand, have proven invaluable to many an owner. Here are
        some of
        his remarks from the Bulletech yahoogroup : As is the case with most engines, there are other sources for pistons for the 500 Bullet. One such alternative is supplied by JP Pistons, of Australia. Part number JP0582. The astute reader will doubtless conclude that Mr. Busby orders few factory pistons, preferring instead the JP offering. Other mechanics also report inconsistency in taper and cam, stress risers in the oil drain slot, weak crown, a tendency to distort well before they actually break, and a number of other problems. In use, they appear often to have a tendency toward partial seizure at the crown, which, combined with a fundamental weakness due to excessive size of the oil drain slot (at the base of the bottom ring land), bring about failure by the piston being pulled apart at higher engine speeds.
>
>Tim may also be quoted as saying;
       
        Consequently, the 500 piston should be examined carefully,
        replaced
        if there's any doubt at all, and probably with an other-source
        piston,
        such as the JP offering, which appears at this writing to be
        getting much
        better reviews. Hitchcock's M/C in England also supply an
        aftermarket
        piston with good reviews - check with your national distributor
        for
        alternatives.
>
>And if you're replacing the piston, especially in the case of a
        collateral re-bore, don't forget to raise your throttle needle a
        notch -
        a richer mixture makes for cooler running - during the run-in
        period.
>---------------
>
>'nuff said...
>ps www.enfield.20m.com  





 
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Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

NYCBSAers
In reply to this post by Gerry-43
It sounds as if the rings have not bedded in yet. Modern oils are so good  
the rings may never run in
 
________________________________________________________________-
 
I have heard this in relation to my Enfield, smoking at 2000 miles.  I  
have done top ends on other bikes and NOT run into this "ring not seating"  
problem.  What is it about Enfields that may cause this?
 
Marty
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Re: Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

Rick Ferguson

On 9/20/2012 1:47 PM, [hidden email] wrote:
> It sounds as if the rings have not bedded in yet. Modern oils are so
> good the rings may never run in
> ________________________________________________________________-
> I have heard this in relation to my Enfield, smoking at 2000 miles.  I
> have done top ends on other bikes and NOT run into this "ring not
> seating" problem.  What is it about Enfields that may cause this?

Took a while for my rings to seat after a rebuild too, using break-in
oil.  It was smoking and blowing oil out the breather.  I suspect there
may be a combination of cylinder distortion when hot (or between cold
and fully warmed up), and occasional less-than-perfect machining on
Enfields.  Mine runs well now after about 1,000 miles (forged Accralite
piston and alloy barrel obtained from Hitchcocks as a matched pair).

Cheers
Rick F
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Re: Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

fiferwd
Damn, aside from blowing the sprag I have been really lucky!  No problem seating the rings and breaking in.  I followed the manual and broke in for 1,000 miles of torturous slow and medium speeds, then did a run to Pennsylvania along interstates in the rain at 70 and over with no problems.  Even with the rain it was pure joy, despite the temporary blindness imposed by semis passing at 80 plus.  The trip home was also great - 4 hours with detours, and the only fun part was a near head on collision when I and a Porsche both  tried to take a turn in Catoctin State Park a bit too fast.

2005 Bullet ES now 535 with JE piston, Alloy barrel and Hitchcock's crank with forged rod and needle bearing.
Yrs,
Bill

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick F
Sent: Thu, Sep 20, 2012 2:01 pm
Subject: Re: [Enfield] Re: Heavy oil consumption ?




Took a while for my rings to seat after a rebuild too, using break-in
oil.  It was smoking and blowing oil out the breather.  I suspect there
may be a combination of cylinder distortion when hot (or between cold
and fully warmed up), and occasional less-than-perfect machining on
Enfields.  Mine runs well now after about 1,000 miles (forged Accralite
piston and alloy barrel obtained from Hitchcocks as a matched pair).

Cheers
Rick F

   
             

 
 
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Re: Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

P Snidal
In reply to this post by NYCBSAers
At 10:47 AM 9/20/2012, you wrote:


>It sounds as if the rings have not bedded in yet. Modern oils are so
>good the rings may never run in
>
>________________________________________________________________-
>
>I have heard this in relation to my Enfield, smoking at 2000
>miles.  I have done top ends on other bikes and NOT run into this
>"ring not seating" problem.  What is it about Enfields that may cause this?
>
>Marty

Although most replacement rings are cast iron, some are
chrome-moly.  In a freshly machined (and therefore finish-honed)
bore, they seat in fairly quickly, since the honed bore is a lot
rougher than one that's been run in nice and shiny.  The answer is
retroactive - you shoulda used cast iron rings (if that's your
problem.)  Now, you can just wait longer, or even try one or two of
theold tricks like "dusting" the air intake (filter off) with such as
BonAmi(TM),
etc.  I've heard about this, but never had to try it.  I DID once
replace a new set of rings with a set I verified were yes, cast
iron.  It was in an MG TD that I rebuilt, and got tired of waiting
for it to stop smoking
your call. Best of luck with it!
ps
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Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

NYCBSAers
In reply to this post by Gerry-43
Although most replacement rings are cast iron, some are
chrome-moly. In  a freshly machined (and therefore finish-honed)
bore, they seat in fairly  quickly, since the honed bore is a lot
rougher than one that's been run in  nice and shiny. The answer is
retroactive - you shoulda used cast iron rings  (if that's your
problem.) Now, you can just wait longer, or even try one or  two of
theold tricks like "dusting" the air intake (filter off) with such as  
BonAmi(TM),
______________________________
 
The rings in question on my Enfield are the original, straight from then  
factory.  That is 2000 miles on a new engine, not a rebuild.  
Marty (I don't have the nerve to try the BonAmi trick)  Sabba
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Re: Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

P Snidal
In reply to this post by Gerry-43

>It has been suggested to me that there are 2 positions that the oil
>dipstick can be placed in, if turned fully to the right it becomes tightly
>seated and forms a complete seal. I have been told that this is a position
>only to be used for transit or long term storage, this is where mine was
>set to when I got the bike & consequently where I have been putting it
>after topping up & checking oil levels. I'm further informed that if the
>engine is run in this position then the crankcases will become pressurized
>and the force the engine to breath heavily, the oil level will then drop
>quicker & require topping up more often giving the illusion that it is
>burning more oil. I'm told that the dipstick should be in the other
>(partially open) position for normal running & that this could be my
>problem ?, is this correct as I have not seen mention of it in any manuals
>that I have come across.

There are 3 basic systems of crankcase breathing that were used on
the cast-iron Bullets
Check out the writeup in my manual, if you have one. The best one
seems to be direct breathing from the crankcase (through the fitting
in the crankcase just above the front of the primary cover) direct to
atmosphere via a one-way valve of some sort and a piece of tubing to
the rear of the rear fender.
There is a plethora of info in the message archives of this yahoo
group. Look for contributions by one of our best, Dave Murray.  He
left in disgust after being over-harassed by an "expert" (yeh-but at
what?) in Cincinatti or somewhere.  I've had the expert filtered out
for so long I forget his name, or if he's left, too....
Good luck with it,
ps

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Re: Heavy oil consumption ?

Royalenfield
In reply to this post by Gerry-43
One, to one and a half cc per mile is normal oil consumption for the 500 with the OEM piston fitted. So the oil useage is not excessive for a 500 Bullet. Over 2cc per mile is an idication that the rings are being pinched by the distoring Stock piston, the oil ring in particular. Eventually the mechanical pressure of the distoring piston causes the Oil ring to shatter, and then the crown snaps off the piston. Ring pinching on the 500 piston is frequently evident by the time the bike has 2000m/3000km.
For those owners who inists on retaining the OEM 500 piston, plan on replacing it by 8000m/12000km, sooner if you ride fast.

 
Tim
N.Z.

--- In [hidden email], "gvinrad" <gerry@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Guy's & Gal's,
>
> Having just spent a week touring the lakes on my 1996 500 classic, taking in some 930 miles by the time I got home I was wondering what is a reasonable oil consumption for such a journey ?.
>
> Apart from killing a spark plug & the flasher unit packing up due to being half full of muddy water (well it did rain a little over the week), the only other issue was that the engine got through a litre of oil !.
>
> This is the first long run the bike has had since it came into my ownership so I'm not sure what to expect oil consumption wise, having said that it seems a bit excessive to me.
>
> Any input about oil consumption will be gratefully received.
>
> Cheers, Gerry.
>