Timing plate bolt repair?

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Timing plate bolt repair?

Rick M.
Yesterday I was going to use the repair kit that CMW sells for striped threads for the bolts that hold down the timing plate. I had used a permatex type thread repair on the upper hole prevoiusly and "wanted to do it right". So of course while removing the lower bolt it snapped off. My question is what is the easyest/best way to drill out that lower bolt? It looks to me like I'll have to either take off the inne left side cover to get a straight shot at the hole or remove the distributor somehow so I can put in the drill press to make sure I dtrill straight. I don't see anything about how to remove the distributor in Pete's book. Any suggestions?

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Re: Timing plate bolt repair?

victortrry
I suppose that you have the timing plate off. probably the reason it broke off is that the thread is stripped inside., it only screws in about 1/4" so if some of it protrudes get a sharpened file and try to make a nick in the bolt and then unscrew it.
If you can't do that, take the timing cover off unsrew the gear on the distributor, I suppose the enfield has a couple of nuts holding the distributor to the crankcase. You can then use your drill press, drill a small hole in the broken bolt, usually this is enough to loosen the bolt, otherwise use a screw extracter.. Next time don't tighten the bolt so much.
Victor
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Rick M.
  To: [hidden email]
  Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:10 PM
  Subject: [Enfield] Timing plate bolt repair?


  Yesterday I was going to use the repair kit that CMW sells for striped threads for the bolts that hold down the timing plate. I had used a permatex type thread repair on the upper hole prevoiusly and "wanted to do it right". So of course while removing the lower bolt it snapped off. My question is what is the easyest/best way to drill out that lower bolt? It looks to me like I'll have to either take off the inne left side cover to get a straight shot at the hole or remove the distributor somehow so I can put in the drill press to make sure I dtrill straight. I don't see anything about how to remove the distributor in Pete's book. Any suggestions?


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: Timing plate bolt repair?

ric450classic
The distributor body is held in place with three slot head screws, each with a shake proof washer which are hidden from sight by the distributor pinion at the top of the timing chest.

The pinion sits on a taper on the end of the distributor shaft and will usually need a two legged puller to remove it after first having removed the nut on the end of the shaft.

There is a small space in the casting where the right hand leg of the puller can be positioned to allow the left hand leg to sit just below where the uppermost timing cover bolt locates. This will allow both legs to sit oppositer each other and pul lthe pinion off squarely.

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Re: Timing plate bolt repair?

Pete Snidal
In reply to this post by Rick M.
At 02:10 AM 3/23/2009, you wrote:
>Yesterday I was going to use the repair kit that CMW sells for
>striped threads for the bolts that hold down the timing plate. I had
>used a permatex type thread repair on the upper hole prevoiusly and
>"wanted to do it right". So of course while removing the lower bolt
>it snapped off.

Rule on: IIWDFI!  (If it works, .......) But it's a mistake we all make.  SWMBO
says we men can't keep our little fingers out of things - but then,
wha'she'know?
But it looks as if K. was looking for a chance for a little LIL.
Lesson In Life.

>My question is what is the easyest/best way to drill out that lower
>bolt? It looks to me like I'll have to either take off the inne left
>side cover to get a straight shot at the hole or remove the
>distributor somehow so I can put in the drill press to make sure I
>dtrill straight. I don't see anything about how to remove the
>distributor in Pete's book. Any suggestions?

It's there.  I put it in the section on crankcase stripping, since
that's the main reason (I thought) why anyone would want to take the
CB unit out.  From the index, it's Chapter 6, then "Splitting the
case."  Down a page or so from the top.

Assumption in this case would be that you've pulled the timing cover,
giving access to the CB drive gear, which you'll have to remove in
order to gain access to the three CB unit mounting screws which hold
it through the inner timing cover.  Instructions for this also in
Chap 6 - Re&Re Timing Cover.  You'll want to be respectful of the
feelings of your oil pump drive gears, etc...


I've since changed the file a bit, though - consulted MY guru about
best way to separate the AA unit from the CB shaft.  He just does it
the way I would - hits it with a plastic hammer.  Here's his advice:

"The way I remember it is that we replace the screw with a
slightly longer and SLIGHTY FATTER one that does not just
slip thru the cb-cam-axle, but screws into threads therein.
On tightening it butts against the small hole which it can't
enter and so forces the taper of the cb-axle out.

But it is not a practical way. Except for torque-wrench-ers ;-)
We remove the stud/screw and give the cam a firm whack with
a screwdriver handle. Butterfingery guys may prefer nylon-hammer.
Never bent/ broke a cb yet, so this simple way works fine. We do
NOT however, use it on rusty antiques found in granny's barns etc
so some discretion/ adult-supervision is called for..."

- Good luck with it.  It's a whole lotta bother for one little broken
screw, but I guess a valuable LIL.  (grin) Why we love these things!

Suggested Mantra:  "Boy, I'm sure glad this isn't one o' them
stooopid UCEs, 'cause then it wouldn't even HAVE a CB!"

I've included that in my coverage of CB unit removal.


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Re: Timing plate bolt repair?

Rick M.
I fixed it this morning. That is the first time I've had the timing cover off and everything looked good ad clean inside. The repair kit is just an M6x1 tap and new two piece hold-down bolts for the points plate. I drilled out the broken bolt first then used a #9 drill bit before taping. To Powerarc users you will have to enlarge the slots to mount when using the new bolts.                                  
--- In [hidden email], Pete Snidal <snidey@...> wrote:

>
> At 02:10 AM 3/23/2009, you wrote:
> >Yesterday I was going to use the repair kit that CMW sells for
> >striped threads for the bolts that hold down the timing plate. I had
> >used a permatex type thread repair on the upper hole prevoiusly and
> >"wanted to do it right". So of course while removing the lower bolt
> >it snapped off.
>
> Rule on: IIWDFI!  (If it works, .......) But it's a mistake we all make.  SWMBO
> says we men can't keep our little fingers out of things - but then,
> wha'she'know?
> But it looks as if K. was looking for a chance for a little LIL.
> Lesson In Life.
>
> >My question is what is the easyest/best way to drill out that lower
> >bolt? It looks to me like I'll have to either take off the inne left
> >side cover to get a straight shot at the hole or remove the
> >distributor somehow so I can put in the drill press to make sure I
> >dtrill straight. I don't see anything about how to remove the
> >distributor in Pete's book. Any suggestions?
>
> It's there.  I put it in the section on crankcase stripping, since
> that's the main reason (I thought) why anyone would want to take the
> CB unit out.  From the index, it's Chapter 6, then "Splitting the
> case."  Down a page or so from the top.
>
> Assumption in this case would be that you've pulled the timing cover,
> giving access to the CB drive gear, which you'll have to remove in
> order to gain access to the three CB unit mounting screws which hold
> it through the inner timing cover.  Instructions for this also in
> Chap 6 - Re&Re Timing Cover.  You'll want to be respectful of the
> feelings of your oil pump drive gears, etc...
>
>
> I've since changed the file a bit, though - consulted MY guru about
> best way to separate the AA unit from the CB shaft.  He just does it
> the way I would - hits it with a plastic hammer.  Here's his advice:
>
> "The way I remember it is that we replace the screw with a
> slightly longer and SLIGHTY FATTER one that does not just
> slip thru the cb-cam-axle, but screws into threads therein.
> On tightening it butts against the small hole which it can't
> enter and so forces the taper of the cb-axle out.
>
> But it is not a practical way. Except for torque-wrench-ers ;-)
> We remove the stud/screw and give the cam a firm whack with
> a screwdriver handle. Butterfingery guys may prefer nylon-hammer.
> Never bent/ broke a cb yet, so this simple way works fine. We do
> NOT however, use it on rusty antiques found in granny's barns etc
> so some discretion/ adult-supervision is called for..."
>
> - Good luck with it.  It's a whole lotta bother for one little broken
> screw, but I guess a valuable LIL.  (grin) Why we love these things!
>
> Suggested Mantra:  "Boy, I'm sure glad this isn't one o' them
> stooopid UCEs, 'cause then it wouldn't even HAVE a CB!"
>
> I've included that in my coverage of CB unit removal.
>


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Re: Timing plate bolt repair?

deejay_nh
How's the PowerArc treating you? I'm considering it or the Boyer.

--- In [hidden email], "Rick M." <mccartymfg@...> wrote:

>
> I fixed it this morning. That is the first time I've had the timing cover off and everything looked good ad clean inside. The repair kit is just an M6x1 tap and new two piece hold-down bolts for the points plate. I drilled out the broken bolt first then used a #9 drill bit before taping. To Powerarc users you will have to enlarge the slots to mount when using the new bolts.                                  
> --- In [hidden email], Pete Snidal <snidey@> wrote:
> >
> > At 02:10 AM 3/23/2009, you wrote:
> > >Yesterday I was going to use the repair kit that CMW sells for
> > >striped threads for the bolts that hold down the timing plate. I had
> > >used a permatex type thread repair on the upper hole prevoiusly and
> > >"wanted to do it right". So of course while removing the lower bolt
> > >it snapped off.
> >
> > Rule on: IIWDFI!  (If it works, .......) But it's a mistake we all make.  SWMBO
> > says we men can't keep our little fingers out of things - but then,
> > wha'she'know?
> > But it looks as if K. was looking for a chance for a little LIL.
> > Lesson In Life.
> >
> > >My question is what is the easyest/best way to drill out that lower
> > >bolt? It looks to me like I'll have to either take off the inne left
> > >side cover to get a straight shot at the hole or remove the
> > >distributor somehow so I can put in the drill press to make sure I
> > >dtrill straight. I don't see anything about how to remove the
> > >distributor in Pete's book. Any suggestions?
> >
> > It's there.  I put it in the section on crankcase stripping, since
> > that's the main reason (I thought) why anyone would want to take the
> > CB unit out.  From the index, it's Chapter 6, then "Splitting the
> > case."  Down a page or so from the top.
> >
> > Assumption in this case would be that you've pulled the timing cover,
> > giving access to the CB drive gear, which you'll have to remove in
> > order to gain access to the three CB unit mounting screws which hold
> > it through the inner timing cover.  Instructions for this also in
> > Chap 6 - Re&Re Timing Cover.  You'll want to be respectful of the
> > feelings of your oil pump drive gears, etc...
> >
> >
> > I've since changed the file a bit, though - consulted MY guru about
> > best way to separate the AA unit from the CB shaft.  He just does it
> > the way I would - hits it with a plastic hammer.  Here's his advice:
> >
> > "The way I remember it is that we replace the screw with a
> > slightly longer and SLIGHTY FATTER one that does not just
> > slip thru the cb-cam-axle, but screws into threads therein.
> > On tightening it butts against the small hole which it can't
> > enter and so forces the taper of the cb-axle out.
> >
> > But it is not a practical way. Except for torque-wrench-ers ;-)
> > We remove the stud/screw and give the cam a firm whack with
> > a screwdriver handle. Butterfingery guys may prefer nylon-hammer.
> > Never bent/ broke a cb yet, so this simple way works fine. We do
> > NOT however, use it on rusty antiques found in granny's barns etc
> > so some discretion/ adult-supervision is called for..."
> >
> > - Good luck with it.  It's a whole lotta bother for one little broken
> > screw, but I guess a valuable LIL.  (grin) Why we love these things!
> >
> > Suggested Mantra:  "Boy, I'm sure glad this isn't one o' them
> > stooopid UCEs, 'cause then it wouldn't even HAVE a CB!"
> >
> > I've included that in my coverage of CB unit removal.
> >
>


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Re: Timing plate bolt repair?

Rick M.
The Powerarc has given me no troubles. Even though it looks like I got some moisture under the distributor cap and a little corrosion on the unit it still works fine.                                              --- In [hidden email], "deejay" <deejay_nh@...> wrote:
>
> How's the PowerArc treating you? I'm considering it or the Boyer.
>


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Re: Timing plate bolt repair?

cjayheff
In reply to this post by deejay_nh
--- In [hidden email], "deejay" <deejay_nh@...> wrote:
>
> How's the PowerArc treating you? I'm considering it or the Boyer.
>
> --- In [hidden email], "Rick M." <mccartymfg@> wrote:
> >
> > I fixed it this morning. That is the first time I've had the timing cover off and everything looked good ad clean inside. The repair kit is just an M6x1 tap and new two piece hold-down bolts for the points plate. I drilled out the broken bolt first then used a #9 drill bit before taping. To Powerarc users you will have to enlarge the slots to mount when using the new bolts.                                  


Not just Powerarc users. The stock points plate needs the slots enlarged also. It would be nice if they told you that up front. And even then, the threads the kit cuts are pretty ratty and being in that soft alloy are susceptible to stripping again. I drilled out the holes and put in steel inserts but I can't remember the size now. Probably 6m.

CJay

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Re: Timing plate bolt repair?

Bombay_RE
In reply to this post by Rick M.
Was wondering if someone here could let me know what the original thread size and pitch is for the timing plate bolts. Also if anyone has tried to use a "time sert" thread repair with one of these? Back in the US I have had really good luck with the "time sert", I have found that it is preferable to taped aluminum. I will include a link in case you are not familiar with them. I appreciate your input.

http://www.flanderscompany.com/Images/PDF/160-Thread%20Repair.pdf

Rick M. wrote
Yesterday I was going to use the repair kit that CMW sells for striped threads for the bolts that hold down the timing plate. I had used a permatex type thread repair on the upper hole prevoiusly and "wanted to do it right". So of course while removing the lower bolt it snapped off. My question is what is the easyest/best way to drill out that lower bolt? It looks to me like I'll have to either take off the inne left side cover to get a straight shot at the hole or remove the distributor somehow so I can put in the drill press to make sure I dtrill straight. I don't see anything about how to remove the distributor in Pete's book. Any suggestions?
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Re: Timing plate bolt repair?

gracielona
In reply to this post by Rick M.
I think you should replace the old screw with old one. Because i think after repairing it could be happened that repaired bolt would not work properly..
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