Voltage leakage

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Voltage leakage

adrianfryatt2004
The bike - 1957 crusader

I was reading in my manual that there is a very small amount of voltage leakage via the rectifier when the bike is parked.  I put my meter between my battery and the lead and sure enough it showed a .1 of a volt leakage.  I don't ride the bike much so I think i'll be removing the fuse in between rides....does anyone notice their battery going flat between rides.  Obviously batteries naturally lose there charge anyway so I guess it would be difficult to tell....

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Re: Voltage leakage

Gerry-43
Hi Adrian,

If I was that bothered about it then I think I would just fit an
isolator switch rather than remove the fuse each time.

Cheers, Gerry

On 08/10/12 10:39, adrianfryatt2004 wrote:

> The bike - 1957 crusader
>
> I was reading in my manual that there is a very small amount of voltage leakage via the rectifier when the bike is parked.  I put my meter between my battery and the lead and sure enough it showed a .1 of a volt leakage.  I don't ride the bike much so I think i'll be removing the fuse in between rides....does anyone notice their battery going flat between rides.  Obviously batteries naturally lose there charge anyway so I guess it would be difficult to tell....
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Your personal settings are at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield
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Re: Voltage leakage

Graham Swingland
Modern rectifiers have a much lower back leakage , in fact they work much better than the originals in all ways . Fit one of these and the problem goes away. Graham




________________________________
 From: Gerry <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, 8 October 2012, 10:01
Subject: Re: [Enfield] Voltage leakage
 

 


Hi Adrian,

If I was that bothered about it then I think I would just fit an
      isolator switch rather than remove the fuse each time.

Cheers, Gerry

 
On 08/10/12 10:39, adrianfryatt2004 wrote:



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Re: Voltage leakage

lee eldridge
In reply to this post by Gerry-43
I am confused about this statement.

0.1 volt is difficult to measure unless detailed care is used.

Possibly I will assume that there may be leakage via the rectifier through the alternator coils, through the ground system and back to the battery. If this is too high the battery will be discharged in an unreasonably short time. The battery has self discharge a well.

Now with all modern rectifiers will have nano amps of reverse current (at 12v). If you have an old selenium style rectifier then you could expect much higher currents even when the thing was new, possibly several mili amps.

Modern rectifiers make your system more efficient with low voltage drops for charging and "no" reverse leakage


Lee Eldridge
Australia
[hidden email]
0427874796





On 08/10/2012, at 9:01 PM, Gerry wrote:

> Hi Adrian,
>
> If I was that bothered about it then I think I would just fit an isolator switch rather than remove the fuse each time.
>
> Cheers, Gerry
>
>
> On 08/10/12 10:39, adrianfryatt2004 wrote:
>> The bike - 1957 crusader
>>
>> I was reading in my manual that there is a very small amount of voltage leakage via the rectifier when the bike is parked.  I put my meter between my battery and the lead and sure enough it showed a .1 of a volt leakage.  I don't ride the bike much so I think i'll be removing the fuse in between rides....does anyone notice their battery going flat between rides.  Obviously batteries naturally lose there charge anyway so I guess it would be difficult to tell....
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Your personal settings are at:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield
>> Our old messages are at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield/messages
>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
>> [hidden email]
>>  Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

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Re: Voltage leakage

billybuckjobob
Lee, is there a rectifier you would recommend?  Malcolm
On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:18 AM, Lee Eldridge wrote:

> I am confused about this statement.
>
>
> 0.1 volt is difficult to measure unless detailed care is used.
>
> Possibly I will assume that there may be leakage via the rectifier  
> through the alternator coils, through the ground system and back to  
> the battery. If this is too high the battery will be discharged in  
> an unreasonably short time. The battery has self discharge a well.
>
> Now with all modern rectifiers will have nano amps of reverse  
> current (at 12v). If you have an old selenium style rectifier then  
> you could expect much higher currents even when the thing was new,  
> possibly several mili amps.
>
> Modern rectifiers make your system more efficient with low voltage  
> drops for charging and "no" reverse leakage
>
>
> Lee Eldridge
> Australia
> [hidden email]
> 0427874796
>
>
>
>
>
> On 08/10/2012, at 9:01 PM, Gerry wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Adrian,
>>
>> If I was that bothered about it then I think I would just fit an  
>> isolator switch rather than remove the fuse each time.
>>
>> Cheers, Gerry
>>
>>
>> On 08/10/12 10:39, adrianfryatt2004 wrote:
>>> The bike - 1957 crusader
>>>
>>> I was reading in my manual that there is a very small amount of  
>>> voltage leakage via the rectifier when the bike is parked.  I put  
>>> my meter between my battery and the lead and sure enough it  
>>> showed a .1 of a volt leakage.  I don't ride the bike much so I  
>>> think i'll be removing the fuse in between rides....does anyone  
>>> notice their battery going flat between rides.  Obviously  
>>> batteries naturally lose there charge anyway so I guess it would  
>>> be difficult to tell....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Your personal settings are at:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield
>>> Our old messages are at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ 
>>> royalenfield/messages
>>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
>>> [hidden email]
>>>  Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

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Re: Voltage leakage

NYCBSAers
In reply to this post by adrianfryatt2004
....does anyone notice their battery going flat between rides. Obviously  
batteries naturally lose there charge anyway so I guess it would be difficult
to  tell....


____________
 
I do, so I fit a plug to the terminals and plug in a "float " charger  from
time to time.
 
Marty
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Re: Voltage leakage

Bare-2
In reply to this post by adrianfryatt2004
Get a battery tender.
Bare
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Re: Voltage leakage

lee eldridge
In reply to this post by billybuckjobob
???

A rectifier created for automotive applications should be OK as the diodes and the assembly is built for high temperatures and vibration. You must get one in the correct configuration.  I looked around and found the easiest thing to do was to buy several of the ones made in India. There were called Regulator cum rectifier (yes they had a small regulator in them. There are others listed in the Indian website. Cheap but the India made quality can be very poor, thus the multiple orders from two distributors.

I looked at secondhand Japanese ones and off road bikes had modules that were just diodes for a multiphased alternator. Here they just rectified the 6 phases and used it, even without a battery. These may be useful for your machine.

Send me a schematic of the wiring system will you?



Lee Eldridge
Australia
[hidden email]
0427874796





On 09/10/2012, at 1:23 AM, Malcolm Boyd wrote:

> Lee, is there a rectifier you would recommend?  Malcolm
>
> On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:18 AM, Lee Eldridge wrote:
>
>>  
>> I am confused about this statement.
>>
>>
>> 0.1 volt is difficult to measure unless detailed care is used.
>>
>> Possibly I will assume that there may be leakage via the rectifier through the alternator coils, through the ground system and back to the battery. If this is too high the battery will be discharged in an unreasonably short time. The battery has self discharge a well.
>>
>> Now with all modern rectifiers will have nano amps of reverse current (at 12v). If you have an old selenium style rectifier then you could expect much higher currents even when the thing was new, possibly several mili amps.
>>
>> Modern rectifiers make your system more efficient with! low voltage drops for charging and "no" reverse leakage
>>
>>
>> Lee Eldridge
>> Australia
>> [hidden email]
>> 042787! 4796
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 08/10/2012, at 9:01 PM, Gerry wrote:
>>
>>>  
>>> Hi Adrian,
>>>
>>> If I was that bothered about it then I think I would just fit an isolator switch rather than remove the fuse each time.
>>>
>>> Cheers, Gerry
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08/10/12 10:39, adrianfryatt2004 wrote:
>>>> The bike - 1957 crusader
>>>>
>>>> I was reading in my manual that there is a very small amount of voltage leakage via the rectifier when the bike is parked.  I put my meter between my battery and the lead and sure enough it showed a .1 of a volt leakage.  I don't ride the bike much so I think i'll be removing the fuse in between rides....does anyone notice their battery going flat between rides.  Obviously batteries naturally lose there charge anyway so I guess it would be difficult to tell....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Your personal settings are at:
>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield
>>>> Our old messages are at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield/messages
>>>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>  Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

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Re: Voltage leakage

JOHN MEAD
Not really.  Automobile voltage regulators allow for a lot higher current flow than a motorcycle battery can handle.

John Mead


--- On Mon, 10/8/12, Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Enfield] Voltage leakage
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, October 8, 2012, 6:43 PM










       












???
A rectifier created for automotive applications should be OK as the diodes and the assembly is built for high temperatures and vibration. You must get one in the correct configuration.  I looked around and found the easiest thing to do was to buy several of the ones made in India. There were called Regulator cum rectifier (yes they had a small regulator in them. There are others listed in the Indian website. Cheap but the India made quality can be very poor, thus the multiple orders from two distributors.
I looked at secondhand Japanese ones and off road bikes had modules that were just diodes for a multiphased alternator. Here they just rectified the 6 phases and used it, even without a battery. These may be useful for your machine.
Send me a schematic of the wiring system will you?



Lee [hidden email].au0427874796






On 09/10/2012, at 1:23 AM, Malcolm Boyd wrote:















 



   
Lee, is there a rectifier you would recommend?  Malcolm
On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:18 AM, Lee Eldridge wrote:
         I am confused about this statement.
0.1 volt is difficult to measure unless detailed care is used.
Possibly I will assume that there may be leakage via the rectifier through the alternator coils, through the ground system and back to the battery. If this is too high the battery will be discharged in an unreasonably short time. The battery has self discharge a well.
Now with all modern rectifiers will have nano amps of reverse current (at 12v). If you have an old selenium style rectifier then you could expect much higher currents even when the thing was new, possibly several mili amps. 
Modern rectifiers make your system more efficient with!
  low voltage drops for charging and "no" reverse leakage

 Lee [hidden email].au042787!
 4796



 
On 08/10/2012, at 9:01 PM, Gerry wrote:
                Hi Adrian,
     
      If I was that bothered about it then I think I would just fit an      isolator switch rather than remove the fuse each time.
     
      Cheers, Gerry
     
        On 08/10/12 10:39, adrianfryatt2004      wrote:
              The bike - 1957 crusader

I was reading in my manual that there is a very small amount of voltage leakage via the rectifier when the bike is parked.  I put my meter between my battery and the lead and sure enough it showed a .1 of a volt leakage.  I don't ride the bike much so I think i'll be removing the fuse in between rides....does anyone notice their battery going flat between rides.  Obviously batteries naturally lose there charge anyway so I guess it would be difficult to tell....



------------------------------------

Your personal settings are at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield
Our old messages are at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield/messages
To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
[hidden email]
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Re: Voltage leakage

JOHN MEAD
In reply to this post by lee eldridge
One more thing with modern automobile alternator regulators, they have a control function to vary the current to the windings in the rotor.  The have a third wire going to the alternator for this.  Enfield alternators are perminent magnet and only have two wires going to the alternator.

John Mead


--- On Mon, 10/8/12, Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Enfield] Voltage leakage
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, October 8, 2012, 6:43 PM










       












???
A rectifier created for automotive applications should be OK as the diodes and the assembly is built for high temperatures and vibration. You must get one in the correct configuration.  I looked around and found the easiest thing to do was to buy several of the ones made in India. There were called Regulator cum rectifier (yes they had a small regulator in them. There are others listed in the Indian website. Cheap but the India made quality can be very poor, thus the multiple orders from two distributors.
I looked at secondhand Japanese ones and off road bikes had modules that were just diodes for a multiphased alternator. Here they just rectified the 6 phases and used it, even without a battery. These may be useful for your machine.
Send me a schematic of the wiring system will you?



Lee [hidden email].au0427874796






On 09/10/2012, at 1:23 AM, Malcolm Boyd wrote:















 



   
Lee, is there a rectifier you would recommend?  Malcolm
On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:18 AM, Lee Eldridge wrote:
         I am confused about this statement.
0.1 volt is difficult to measure unless detailed care is used.
Possibly I will assume that there may be leakage via the rectifier through the alternator coils, through the ground system and back to the battery. If this is too high the battery will be discharged in an unreasonably short time. The battery has self discharge a well.
Now with all modern rectifiers will have nano amps of reverse current (at 12v). If you have an old selenium style rectifier then you could expect much higher currents even when the thing was new, possibly several mili amps. 
Modern rectifiers make your system more efficient with!
  low voltage drops for charging and "no" reverse leakage

 Lee [hidden email].au042787!
 4796



 
On 08/10/2012, at 9:01 PM, Gerry wrote:
                Hi Adrian,
     
      If I was that bothered about it then I think I would just fit an      isolator switch rather than remove the fuse each time.
     
      Cheers, Gerry
     
        On 08/10/12 10:39, adrianfryatt2004      wrote:
              The bike - 1957 crusader

I was reading in my manual that there is a very small amount of voltage leakage via the rectifier when the bike is parked.  I put my meter between my battery and the lead and sure enough it showed a .1 of a volt leakage.  I don't ride the bike much so I think i'll be removing the fuse in between rides....does anyone notice their battery going flat between rides.  Obviously batteries naturally lose there charge anyway so I guess it would be difficult to tell....



------------------------------------

Your personal settings are at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield
Our old messages are at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield/messages
To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
[hidden email]
 Yahoo! Groups Links



       

               

                   



   
     

   

















   
   







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Re: Voltage leakage

lee eldridge
All the alternators I have seen on RE's are three phase. The four wires are for the star's common point plus one for each phase. I gather that there is a another version with two phases connected in common and a winding that is floating from them. This requires 5 wires. I can be converted to a three phase system by joining the two common leads.

The three phases give a lower level of ripple when rectified. The Japanese rectifiers I have seen are for a 6 phase alternator system that produces very low ripple. You could use one of these either by ignoring every second input or doubling up inputs to each phase.


Auto diodes have large area dies and are fabricated on relatively low technology 2um silicon semiconductor fabrication lines. Reverse leakage at 12v and max temperature is still in the micro amps. It is simply impossible to make rectifiers now that are anywhere as badly behaved as the selenium and then germanium devices of yore.

However if the rectifier modules contain protection components then there may be higher leakage due to the protection. If the modules are rectifier regulators that control the magnetics of the alternator then were are in a different ball game.

Either use a modern RE type or locate a suitable set from another auto related supplier. If you are really interested you can buy three 50A 50V power diodes and solder them together and then pot them in epoxy. f the diodes are designed for automotive applications and the soldering and mounting is done well they should be very reliable also.


Lee Eldridge
Australia
[hidden email]
0427874796





On 09/10/2012, at 11:13 AM, John Mead wrote:

> One more thing with modern automobile alternator regulators, they have a control function to vary the current to the windings in the rotor.  The have a third wire going to the alternator for this.  Enfield alternators are perminent magnet and only have two wires going to the alternator.
>
> John Mead
>
> --- On Mon, 10/8/12, Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> From: Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Enfield] Voltage leakage
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Monday, October 8, 2012, 6:43 PM
>
>
>
> ???
>
> A rectifier created for automotive applications should be OK as the diodes and the assembly is built for high temperatures and vibration. You must get one in the correct configuration.  I looked around and found the easiest thing to do was to buy several of the ones made in India. There were called Regulator cum rectifier (yes they had a small regulator in them. There are others listed in the Indian website. Cheap but the India made quality can be very poor, thus the multiple orders from two distributors.
>
> I looked at secondhand Japanese ones and off road bikes had modules that were just diodes for a multiphased alternator. Here they just rectified the 6 phases and used it, even without a battery. These may be useful for your machine.
>
> Send me a schematic of the wiring system will you?
>
>
>
> Lee Eldridge
> Australia
> [hidden email]
> 0427874796
>
>
>
>
>
> On 09/10/2012, at 1:23 AM, Malcolm Boyd wrote:
>
>>  
>> Lee, is there a rectifier you would recommend?  Malcolm
>>
>> On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:18 AM, Lee Eldridge wrote:
>>
>>>  
>>> I am confused about this statement.
>>>
>>>
>>> 0.1 volt is difficult to measure unless detailed care is used.
>>>
>>> Possibly I will assume that there may be leakage via the rectifier through the alternator coils, through the ground system and back to the battery. If this is too high the battery will be discharged in an unreasonably short time. The battery has self discharge a well.
>>>
>>> Now with all modern rectifiers will have nano amps of reverse current (at 12v). If you have an old selenium style rectifier then you could expect much higher currents even when the thing was new, possibly several mili amps.
>>>
>>> Modern rectifiers make your system more efficient with! low voltage drops for charging and "no" reverse leakage
>>>
>>>
>>> Lee Eldridge
>>> Australia
>>> lee@vombatus! .com.au
>>> 042787! 4796
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08/10/2012, at 9:01 PM, Gerry wrote:
>>>
>>>>  
>>>> Hi Adrian,
>>>>
>>>> If I was that bothered about it then I think I would just fit an isolator switch rather than remove the fuse each time.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, Gerry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 08/10/12 10:39, adrianfryatt2004 wrote:
>>>>> The bike - 1957 crusader
>>>>>
>>>>> I was reading in my manual that there is a very small amount of voltage leakage via the rectifier when the bike is parked.  I put my meter between my battery and the lead and sure enough it showed a .1 of a volt leakage.  I don't ride the bike much so I think i'll be removing the fuse in between rides....does anyone notice their battery going flat between rides.  Obviously batteries naturally lose there charge anyway so I guess it would be difficult to tell....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Your personal settings are at:
>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield
>>>>> Our old messages are at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield/messages
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>  Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Voltage leakage

billybuckjobob
In reply to this post by JOHN MEAD
    Back to Lee, at this point I am simply in cogitation mode.My bike  
has sat in the garage almost two years. The last time I rode I had  
been puttering along at around 5 miles  an hour on a dirt road for  
half an hour or so after  a slow tour of the island when the engine  
stopped and would not restart. I haven't had the time or energy to  
look into it beyond looking in here from time to time. My thought is  
that it may be the battery doesn't get enough charge at slow, slow  
speed and I simply drained the battery. Were there a some way to  
upgrade the entire charging system to allow more efficient charging  
at slow speeds might be a solution, IF that is the problem. But, once  
again. with all the projects, repairs to the house, work and mostly  
single parenting a five year old boy, I have lots of excuses for not  
attending to the bike. Now that he has entered kindergarten, I may  
revisit the matter.
     Back to John, I mentioned earlier that I don't know what the  
problem is but, given the line of thinking here, while I use some of  
my fee time waiting for my son to awaken, reading these  
correspondences causes me to think about my bike. I seem to remember  
something about using automotive regulators and your remark being  
true. I saw on the internet that there is a plethora of regulators  
and rectifiers out there. It is simply a matter of getting a line on  
the right one for the job. Since electricity is one of the most vague  
areas of my knowledge base, I like to ask first..... I am a carpenter  
first and a mediocre door yard mechanic..... and a sailor.. Malcolm...

On Oct 8, 2012, at 8:13 PM, John Mead wrote:

> One more thing with modern automobile alternator regulators, they  
> have a control function to vary the current to the windings in the  
> rotor.  The have a third wire going to the alternator for this.  
> Enfield alternators are perminent magnet and only have two wires  
> going to the alternator.
>
> John Mead
>
> --- On Mon, 10/8/12, Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> From: Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Enfield] Voltage leakage
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Monday, October 8, 2012, 6:43 PM
>
>
>
> ???
>
> A rectifier created for automotive applications should be OK as the  
> diodes and the assembly is built for high temperatures and  
> vibration. You must get one in the correct configuration.  I looked  
> around and found the easiest thing to do was to buy several of the  
> ones made in India. There were called Regulator cum rectifier (yes  
> they had a small regulator in them. There are others listed in the  
> Indian website. Cheap but the India made quality can be very poor,  
> thus the multiple orders from two distributors.
>
> I looked at secondhand Japanese ones and off road bikes had modules  
> that were just diodes for a multiphased alternator. Here they just  
> rectified the 6 phases and used it, even without a battery. These  
> may be useful for your machine.
>
> Send me a schematic of the wiring system will you?
>
>
>
> Lee Eldridge
> Australia
> [hidden email]
> 0427874796
>
>
>
>
>
> On 09/10/2012, at 1:23 AM, Malcolm Boyd wrote:
>
>>
>> Lee, is there a rectifier you would recommend?  Malcolm
>>
>> On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:18 AM, Lee Eldridge wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I am confused about this statement.
>>>
>>>
>>> 0.1 volt is difficult to measure unless detailed care is used.
>>>
>>> Possibly I will assume that there may be leakage via the  
>>> rectifier through the alternator coils, through the ground system  
>>> and back to the battery. If this is too high the battery will be  
>>> discharged in an unreasonably short time. The battery has self  
>>> discharge a well.
>>>
>>> Now with all modern rectifiers will have nano amps of reverse  
>>> current (at 12v). If you have an old selenium style rectifier  
>>> then you could expect much higher currents even when the thing  
>>> was new, possibly several mili amps.
>>>
>>> Modern rectifiers make your system more efficient with! low  
>>> voltage drops for charging and "no" reverse leakage
>>>
>>>
>>> Lee Eldridge
>>> Australia
>>> [hidden email]
>>> 042787! 4796
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08/10/2012, at 9:01 PM, Gerry wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Adrian,
>>>>
>>>> If I was that bothered about it then I think I would just fit an  
>>>> isolator switch rather than remove the fuse each time.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers, Gerry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 08/10/12 10:39, adrianfryatt2004 wrote:
>>>>> The bike - 1957 crusader
>>>>>
>>>>> I was reading in my manual that there is a very small amount of  
>>>>> voltage leakage via the rectifier when the bike is parked.  I  
>>>>> put my meter between my battery and the lead and sure enough it  
>>>>> showed a .1 of a volt leakage.  I don't ride the bike much so I  
>>>>> think i'll be removing the fuse in between rides....does anyone  
>>>>> notice their battery going flat between rides.  Obviously  
>>>>> batteries naturally lose there charge anyway so I guess it  
>>>>> would be difficult to tell....
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Your personal settings are at:
>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield
>>>>> Our old messages are at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ 
>>>>> royalenfield/messages
>>>>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>  Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Voltage leakage

JOHN MEAD
In reply to this post by lee eldridge
Sorry for any confusion I caused.  The newest Royal Enfield I own is a 1956 500 single.  My other Enfield is a 1947 J.

John Mead


--- On Tue, 10/9/12, Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Enfield] Voltage leakage
To: [hidden email]
Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2012, 5:24 AM










       












All the alternators I have seen on RE's are three phase. The four wires are for the star's common point plus one for each phase. I gather that there is a another version with two phases connected in common and a winding that is floating from them. This requires 5 wires. I can be converted to a three phase system by joining the two common leads.
The three phases give a lower level of ripple when rectified. The Japanese rectifiers I have seen are for a 6 phase alternator system that produces very low ripple. You could use one of these either by ignoring every second input or doubling up inputs to each phase.

Auto diodes have large area dies and are fabricated on relatively low technology 2um silicon semiconductor fabrication lines. Reverse leakage at 12v and max temperature is still in the micro amps. It is simply impossible to make rectifiers now that are anywhere as badly behaved as the selenium and then germanium devices of yore.
However if the rectifier modules contain protection components then there may be higher leakage due to the protection. If the modules are rectifier regulators that control the magnetics of the alternator then were are in a different ball game.
Either use a modern RE type or locate a suitable set from another auto related supplier. If you are really interested you can buy three 50A 50V power diodes and solder them together and then pot them in epoxy. f the diodes are designed for automotive applications and the soldering and mounting is done well they should be very reliable also.


Lee [hidden email].au0427874796






On 09/10/2012, at 11:13 AM, John Mead wrote:















 



    One more thing with modern automobile alternator regulators, they have a control function to vary the current to the windings in the rotor.  The have a third wire going to the alternator for this.  Enfield alternators are perminent magnet and only have two wires going to the alternator.

John Mead


--- On Mon, 10/8/12, Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Enfield] Voltage leakage
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, October 8, 2012, 6:43 PM








       












???
A rectifier created for automotive applications should be OK as the diodes and the assembly is built for high temperatures and vibration. You must get one in the correct configuration.  I looked around and found the easiest thing to do was to buy several of the ones made in India. There were called Regulator cum rectifier (yes they had a small regulator in them. There are others listed in the Indian website. Cheap but the India made quality can be very poor, thus the multiple orders from two distributors.
I looked at secondhand Japanese ones and off road bikes had modules that were just diodes for a multiphased alternator. Here they just rectified the 6 phases and used it, even without a battery. These may be useful for your machine.
Send me a schematic of the wiring system will you?



Lee [hidden email].au0427874796






On 09/10/2012, at 1:23 AM, Malcolm Boyd wrote:















 



   
Lee, is there a rectifier you would recommend?  Malcolm
On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:18 AM, Lee Eldridge wrote:
         I am confused about this statement.
0.1 volt is difficult to measure unless detailed care is used.
Possibly I will assume that there may be leakage via the rectifier through the alternator coils, through the ground system and back to the battery. If this is too high the battery will be discharged in an unreasonably short time. The battery has self discharge a well.
Now with all modern rectifiers will have nano amps of reverse current (at 12v). If you have an old selenium style rectifier then you could expect much higher currents even when the thing was new, possibly several mili
 amps. 
Modern rectifiers make your system more efficient with!
  low voltage drops for charging and "no" reverse leakage

 Lee EldridgeAustralialee@vombatus!
 .com.au042787!
 4796



 
On 08/10/2012, at 9:01 PM, Gerry wrote:
                Hi Adrian,
     
      If I was that bothered about it then I think I would just fit an      isolator switch rather than remove the fuse each time.
     
      Cheers, Gerry
     
        On 08/10/12 10:39, adrianfryatt2004      wrote:
              The bike - 1957 crusader

I was reading in my manual that there is a very small amount of voltage leakage via the rectifier when the bike is parked.  I put my meter between my battery and the lead and sure enough it showed a .1 of a volt leakage.  I don't ride the bike much so I think i'll be removing the fuse in between rides....does anyone notice their battery going flat between rides.  Obviously batteries naturally lose there charge anyway so I guess it would be difficult to tell....



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Re: Voltage leakage

lee eldridge
John,

Old is relative.

and this group relative seems pretty relative too


Lee Eldridge
Australia
[hidden email]
0427874796





On 10/10/2012, at 12:37 PM, John Mead wrote:

> Sorry for any confusion I caused.  The newest Royal Enfield I own is a 1956 500 single.  My other Enfield is a 1947 J.
>
> John Mead
>
> --- On Tue, 10/9/12, Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> From: Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Enfield] Voltage leakage
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2012, 5:24 AM
>
>
>
> All the alternators I have seen on RE's are three phase. The four wires are for the star's common point plus one for each phase. I gather that there is a another version with two phases connected in common and a winding that is floating from them. This requires 5 wires. I can be converted to a three phase system by joining the two common leads.
>
> The three phases give a lower level of ripple when rectified. The Japanese rectifiers I have seen are for a 6 phase alternator system that produces very low ripple. You could use one of these either by ignoring every second input or doubling up inputs to each phase.
>
>
> Auto diodes have large area dies and are fabricated on relatively low technology 2um silicon semiconductor fabrication lines. Reverse leakage at 12v and max temperature is still in the micro amps. It is simply impossible to make rectifiers now that are anywhere as badly behaved as the selenium and then germanium devices of yore.
>
> However if the rectifier modules contain protection components then there may be higher leakage due to the protection. If the modules are rectifier regulators that control the magnetics of the alternator then were are in a different ball game.
>
> Either use a modern RE type or locate a suitable set from another auto related supplier. If you are really interested you can buy three 50A 50V power diodes and solder them together and then pot them in epoxy. f the diodes are designed for automotive applications and the soldering and mounting is done well they should be very reliable also.
>
>
> Lee Eldridge
> Australia
> [hidden email]
> 0427874796
>
>
>
>
>
> On 09/10/2012, at 11:13 AM, John Mead wrote:
>
>>  
>> One more thing with modern automobile alternator regulators, they have a control function to vary the current to the windings in the rotor.  The have a third wire going to the alternator for this.  Enfield alternators are perminent magnet and only have two wires going to the alternator.
>>
>> John Mead
>>
>> --- On Mon, 10/8/12, Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> From: Lee Eldridge <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Enfield] Voltage leakage
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Monday, October 8, 2012, 6:43 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> ???
>>
>> A rectifier created for automotive applications should be OK as the diodes and the assembly is built for high temperatures and vibration. You must get one in the correct configuration.  I looked around and found the easiest thing to do was to buy several of the ones made in India. There were called Regulator cum rectifier (yes they had a small regulator in them. There are others listed in the Indian website. Cheap but the India made quality can be very poor, thus the multiple orders from two distributors.
>>
>> I looked at secondhand Japanese ones and off road bikes had modules that were just diodes for a multiphased alternator. Here they just rectified the 6 phases and used it, even without a battery. These may be useful for your machine.
>>
>> Send me a schematic of the wiring system will you?
>>
>>
>>
>> Lee Eldridge
>> Australia
>> [hidden email]
>> 0427874796
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 09/10/2012, at 1:23 AM, Malcolm Boyd wrote:
>>
>>>  
>>> Lee, is there a rectifier you would recommend?  Malcolm
>>>
>>> On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:18 AM, Lee Eldridge wrote:
>>>
>>>>  
>>>> I am confused about this statement.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 0.1 volt is difficult to measure unless detailed care is used.
>>>>
>>>> Possibly I will assume that there may be leakage via the rectifier through the alternator coils, through the ground system and back to the battery. If this is too high the battery will be discharged in an unreasonably short time. The battery has self discharge a well.
>>>>
>>>> Now with all modern rectifiers will have nano amps of reverse current (at 12v). If you have an old selenium style rectifier then you could expect much higher currents even when the thing was new, possibly several mili amps.
>>>>
>>>> Modern rectifiers make your system more efficient with! low voltage drops for charging and "no" reverse leakage
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lee Eldridge
>>>> Australia
>>>> lee@vombatus! .com.au
>>>> 042787! 4796
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 08/10/2012, at 9:01 PM, Gerry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>> Hi Adrian,
>>>>>
>>>>> If I was that bothered about it then I think I would just fit an isolator switch rather than remove the fuse each time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers, Gerry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 08/10/12 10:39, adrianfryatt2004 wrote:
>>>>>> The bike - 1957 crusader
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was reading in my manual that there is a very small amount of voltage leakage via the rectifier when the bike is parked.  I put my meter between my battery and the lead and sure enough it showed a .1 of a volt leakage.  I don't ride the bike much so I think i'll be removing the fuse in between rides....does anyone notice their battery going flat between rides.  Obviously batteries naturally lose there charge anyway so I guess it would be difficult to tell....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your personal settings are at:
>>>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield
>>>>>> Our old messages are at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield/messages
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>  Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Voltage leakage

Patrick Tooke
In reply to this post by lee eldridge




--- In [hidden email], Lee Eldridge <egdirdle@...> wrote:
>
> ???
>
> A rectifier created for automotive applications should be OK as the diodes and the assembly is built for high temperatures and vibration. You must get one in the correct configuration.  I looked around and found the easiest thing to do was to buy several of the ones made in India. There were called Regulator cum rectifier (yes they had a small regulator in them. There are others listed in the Indian website. Cheap but the India made quality can be very poor, thus the multiple orders from two distributors.

Lee
I've been using these rectifiers from American science, only $4, rated 600v 35 amps.
Is this a mistake?
thanks Pat


http://www.sciplus.com/search.cfm?utm_source=internal&utm_medium=search&utm_content=cf&utm_campaign=celsearchtest&formfield1234567891=114&formfield1234567892=11&formfield1234567894=&term=rectifiers&btnHand.x=0&btnHand.y=0

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Re: Voltage leakage

Tom-413
In reply to this post by billybuckjobob
I don't want to highjack a thread, but, the link below is a article from a restorer name Dr. Jim Downey which describes a cheap replacement for the rectifier using a "Radio Shack" or "Malpin" bridge rectifier.  I made one for about $3 merican.  It has worked for at least five years without problems.  Construction is simple, just keep in mind if you have a positive or negitive earth and wire accordingly.
Rectifier link:

http://physiology.usouthal.edu/restore/diode/diode.html


--- In [hidden email], Malcolm Boyd <islsail@...> wrote:

>
> Lee, is there a rectifier you would recommend?  Malcolm
> On Oct 8, 2012, at 7:18 AM, Lee Eldridge wrote:
>
> > I am confused about this statement.
> >
> >
> > 0.1 volt is difficult to measure unless detailed care is used.
> >
> > Possibly I will assume that there may be leakage via the rectifier  
> > through the alternator coils, through the ground system and back to  
> > the battery. If this is too high the battery will be discharged in  
> > an unreasonably short time. The battery has self discharge a well.
> >
> > Now with all modern rectifiers will have nano amps of reverse  
> > current (at 12v). If you have an old selenium style rectifier then  
> > you could expect much higher currents even when the thing was new,  
> > possibly several mili amps.
> >
> > Modern rectifiers make your system more efficient with low voltage  
> > drops for charging and "no" reverse leakage
> >
> >
> > Lee Eldridge
> > Australia
> > lee@...
> > 0427874796
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 08/10/2012, at 9:01 PM, Gerry wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hi Adrian,
> >>
> >> If I was that bothered about it then I think I would just fit an  
> >> isolator switch rather than remove the fuse each time.
> >>
> >> Cheers, Gerry
> >>
> >>
> >> On 08/10/12 10:39, adrianfryatt2004 wrote:
> >>> The bike - 1957 crusader
> >>>
> >>> I was reading in my manual that there is a very small amount of  
> >>> voltage leakage via the rectifier when the bike is parked.  I put  
> >>> my meter between my battery and the lead and sure enough it  
> >>> showed a .1 of a volt leakage.  I don't ride the bike much so I  
> >>> think i'll be removing the fuse in between rides....does anyone  
> >>> notice their battery going flat between rides.  Obviously  
> >>> batteries naturally lose there charge anyway so I guess it would  
> >>> be difficult to tell....
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Your personal settings are at:
> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield
> >>> Our old messages are at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ 
> >>> royalenfield/messages
> >>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>>  Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>