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oneway valve to breather pipe

Toyokatsu Hama
Hello Enfielders,

I have a question about one-way valve to the breather pipes (hoses?):

Anyone put one-way (pressure) valve to breather pipe?
1) How effective is it?
2) My 2006 Bullet 350 has the three breather pipes as the pics show, all three (two yellow ones and one black one just behind the distributor body) go to the breather box (oil catch).
3) Should I put an one-way valve to each?
4) Where is a proper position to put? (near the oil catch?)

Thank you for your advice in advance.

Pics:
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9648/1oilcatch.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9108/1bhorse.jpg


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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

malfisher500
--- In [hidden email], "Toyokatsu Hama" <toyohama@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Enfielders,
>
> I have a question about one-way valve to the breather pipes (hoses?):
>
> Anyone put one-way (pressure) valve to breather pipe?
> 1) How effective is it?
> 2) My 2006 Bullet 350 has the three breather pipes as the pics show, all three (two yellow ones and one black one just behind the distributor body) go to the breather box (oil catch).


Im not familiar with 3 breather pipes on a bullet Toyo, my 06 has 2, the breather from the top of the crankcase and the thinner return into the timing cover. My 91 has only one, from the side of the crankcase with duckbill over the rear chain, as per Redditch bulls.

The valve, or duckbill on later models is actually inside your catch can, well it was on my 2006 model 500, but there is only 2 pipes as I say, and the thin one is a return for oil to be recycled back into the engine, and hence needs no valve. Hope this helps.

Malc.

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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

Toyokatsu Hama
--- In [hidden email], "Malcolm Fisher" <malfisher@...> wrote:

>
> --- In [hidden email], "Toyokatsu Hama" <toyohama@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Enfielders,
> >
> > I have a question about one-way valve to the breather pipes (hoses?):
> >
> > Anyone put one-way (pressure) valve to breather pipe?
> > 1) How effective is it?
> > 2) My 2006 Bullet 350 has the three breather pipes as the pics show, all three (two yellow ones and one black one just behind the distributor body) go to the breather box (oil catch).
>
>
> Im not familiar with 3 breather pipes on a bullet Toyo, my 06 has 2, the breather from the top of the crankcase and the thinner return into the timing cover. My 91 has only one, from the side of the crankcase with duckbill over the rear chain, as per Redditch bulls.
>
> The valve, or duckbill on later models is actually inside your catch can, well it was on my 2006 model 500, but there is only 2 pipes as I say, and the thin one is a return for oil to be recycled back into the engine, and hence needs no valve. Hope this helps.
>
> Malc.
>

Malc, thank you for your prompt response - good information.
   


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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

Rick Ferguson
In reply to this post by Toyokatsu Hama
On 5/9/09 5:46 AM, "Toyokatsu Hama" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Anyone put one-way (pressure) valve to breather pipe?
I use them on all my big singles

> 1) How effective is it?
I don't have dyno tests but the engines are oil tight and run well.

> 2) My 2006 Bullet 350 has the three breather pipes as the pics show, all three
> (two yellow ones and one black one just behind the distributor body) go to the
> breather box (oil catch).
> 3) Should I put an one-way valve to each?
On the Bullet, I route the breather pipe from the outlet on the left side of
the crankcase below the cylinder up and over the frame top tube, then to the
atmosphere at rear of the bike along a fender stay. No catch tank, no return
line. I don't know the regulations in Japan, it might not be legal there to
disable the closed catch tank system; wouldn't stop me doing it if the bike
is not inspected.

Alternatively, you can remove the return line from your catch tank to the
primary cover and plug the openings, leaving the catch tank in place. In
this instance install the check valve between the crankcase and the catch
tank after routing the breather hose up and over the top tube as previously
described. You will then have to remember to periodically drain the
condensate from your catch tank.

> 4) Where is a proper position to put? (near the oil catch?)
You can insert an in-line check valve at any convenient point in your
breather hose; I put mine just after the hose crosses over the top tube.

There are various types of check valves available; the Universal KrankVent
is a good one. Go here and scroll down:
http://www.et-performance.com/kv.html#Pre93%20EVO
I also like certain auto power brake booster check valves, and they are much
less expensive. ATE makes one that is used by BMW, Volvo and others:
http://tinyurl.com/qwybrv
Do not use a PCV valve, it is not responsive enough and simply won't work.

Cheers
Rick F


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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

gwallison@btopenworld.com
In reply to this post by Toyokatsu Hama
--- In [hidden email], "Toyokatsu Hama" <toyohama@...> wrote:

>
> Hello Enfielders,
>
> I have a question about one-way valve to the breather pipes (hoses?):
>
> Anyone put one-way (pressure) valve to breather pipe?
> 1) How effective is it?
> 2) My 2006 Bullet 350 has the three breather pipes as the pics show, all three (two yellow ones and one black one just behind the distributor body) go to the breather box (oil catch).
> 3) Should I put an one-way valve to each?
> 4) Where is a proper position to put? (near the oil catch?)
>
> Thank you for your advice in advance.
>
> Pics:
> http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9648/1oilcatch.jpg
> http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9108/1bhorse.jpg
>
On your bike you have a combination of the pipes fitted onto the two in bikes in our family.

The thinner yellow pipe vents the crankcase and that is the one with a non return valve fitted on my bike. Nothing much come out of this except very rarely the odd drop of oil, usually only then if the bike hasn't run for a few days. The thicker yellow pipe vents the oil tank and on our bikes is looped over the bar across the top of the gearbox and then down onto the road. This vents a water vapour sludge mixture as it is boiled of the oil. The smaller black pipe is routed up to under the seat to allow air in or out as a chimney. Works well on both bikes. hope this helps

Regards

Graham


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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

Toyokatsu Hama
In reply to this post by Toyokatsu Hama
Malc, Rick and Graham,

thank you all for your precise descriptions in detail. Interesting to find the Enfield has quite individuality on the different models.

FYI - my oil catch has the 4th pipe goes into the right tool box where the airfilter element was located (replaced by the power air-filter). So, the box is empty and the inside is just a little bit greasy. The  inside of oil catch and the end of each breather pipes (oil catch side) are covered with milky oil but not much.

Toyo  

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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

Pete Snidal
In reply to this post by Toyokatsu Hama
At 02:46 AM 5/9/2009, Tomo wrote:

>2) My 2006 Bullet 350 has the three breather pipes as the pics show,
>all three (two yellow ones and one black one just behind the
>distributor body) go to the breather box (oil catch).
>3) Should I put an one-way valve to each?

You've already had some good answers to these questions, but I
thought it may help to clarify that the pipe between your catch can
and the timing chest is intended not as a breather, but rather as a
"return line" from the catch can back into the engine.
Bad idea, as explained below.

I'll pop in a piece from my CD manual which may add some meaning:
-------
3. The "Catchtank B" system: For some reason, presumably to solve
problems with non-savvy owners failing to drain their catch tanks in
time to forestall air filter plugging, a "return loop" back to the
engine was provided for the condensate to be drawn directly back into
the lubrication system through a line into the top of the timing
chest. The practicality of allowing this condensate - a
mayonnaise-like mixture of oil, water vapour, combustion byproducts,
and various noxious, acid, nasty compounds - to re-enter the
lubrication system is dubious at best.
[]

Fortunately, it often blocks off, choking on its own gloop, but then
the catch tank fills and once more the problem of the plugging air
filter rears its ugly head. Thus the "B" system is usually modified
by dealer or owner, who will choose to revert to the "A" system, or
even to the original "Duckbill to Chain" setup. As the engine wears,
and the blowby increases, the slight negative pressure in the
crankcase ceases to be sufficient to draw condensate through the
return line - even if by then it hasn't plugged - and then the tank
will fill and plug the air filter anyway. So, at minimum, a reversion
to the "B" system is pretty well necessary.

------
I'm not sure that the graphics will be passed on by yahoogroups, so
I'll copy this to you personally as well.  Then you should get the drawing.

Important points are to have the vent tube from crankcase rising all
the way to the catch tank, plug the gloop return, and drain the tank
as required. Experience will tell you when this is necessary.

good luck with it!
ps
www.enfield.20m.com  
  ----------



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

Toyokatsu Hama
--- In [hidden email], Pete Snidal <snidey@...> wrote:

>
> At 02:46 AM 5/9/2009, Tomo wrote:
>
> >2) My 2006 Bullet 350 has the three breather pipes as the pics show,
> >all three (two yellow ones and one black one just behind the
> >distributor body) go to the breather box (oil catch).
> >3) Should I put an one-way valve to each?
>
> You've already had some good answers to these questions, but I
> thought it may help to clarify that the pipe between your catch can
> and the timing chest is intended not as a breather, but rather as a
> "return line" from the catch can back into the engine.
> Bad idea, as explained below.
>
> I'll pop in a piece from my CD manual which may add some meaning:
> -------
> 3. The "Catchtank B" system: For some reason, presumably to solve
> problems with non-savvy owners failing to drain their catch tanks in
> time to forestall air filter plugging, a "return loop" back to the
> engine was provided for the condensate to be drawn directly back into
> the lubrication system through a line into the top of the timing
> chest. The practicality of allowing this condensate - a
> mayonnaise-like mixture of oil, water vapour, combustion byproducts,
> and various noxious, acid, nasty compounds - to re-enter the
> lubrication system is dubious at best.
> []
>
> Fortunately, it often blocks off, choking on its own gloop, but then
> the catch tank fills and once more the problem of the plugging air
> filter rears its ugly head. Thus the "B" system is usually modified
> by dealer or owner, who will choose to revert to the "A" system, or
> even to the original "Duckbill to Chain" setup. As the engine wears,
> and the blowby increases, the slight negative pressure in the
> crankcase ceases to be sufficient to draw condensate through the
> return line - even if by then it hasn't plugged - and then the tank
> will fill and plug the air filter anyway. So, at minimum, a reversion
> to the "B" system is pretty well necessary.
>
> ------
> I'm not sure that the graphics will be passed on by yahoogroups, so
> I'll copy this to you personally as well.  Then you should get the drawing.
>
> Important points are to have the vent tube from crankcase rising all
> the way to the catch tank, plug the gloop return, and drain the tank
> as required. Experience will tell you when this is necessary.
>
> good luck with it!
> ps
> www.enfield.20m.com  
>   ----------
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pete, thank you very much! You saved me buying a CD www.enfield.20m.com  :-)


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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

Pete Snidal

>Pete, thank you very much! You saved me buying a CD www.enfield.20m.com  :-)

There's a lot more in the CD than a picture of the vent system, Toyo! >:-}




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

blltrdr81
In reply to this post by malfisher500
--- In [hidden email], "Malcolm Fisher" <malfisher@...> wrote:

>
> --- In [hidden email], "Toyokatsu Hama" <toyohama@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Enfielders,
> >
> > I have a question about one-way valve to the breather pipes (hoses?):
> >
> > Anyone put one-way (pressure) valve to breather pipe?
> > 1) How effective is it?
> > 2) My 2006 Bullet 350 has the three breather pipes as the pics show, all three (two yellow ones and one black one just behind the distributor body) go to the breather box (oil catch).
>
>
> Im not familiar with 3 breather pipes on a bullet Toyo, my 06 has 2, the breather from the top of the crankcase and the thinner return into the timing cover. My 91 has only one, from the side of the crankcase with duckbill over the rear chain, as per Redditch bulls.
>
> The valve, or duckbill on later models is actually inside your catch can, well it was on my 2006 model 500, but there is only 2 pipes as I say, and the thin one is a return for oil to be recycled back into the engine, and hence needs no valve. Hope this helps.
>
> Malc.
>
Malc, there is three. Some bikes came with a vent from the primary inner case that attatched to the catch can.

Blltrdr

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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

Toyokatsu Hama
In reply to this post by Pete Snidal
> >Pete, thank you very much! You saved me buying a CD www.enfield.20m.com  :-)
 
> There's a lot more in the CD than a picture of the vent system, Toyo! :-}

My calling card that I give to riders I meet during touring by my Enfield says 'No occupation, No money, No address but a wife and the Enfield' :-) :-) I'll save pennies and buy a CD.


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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

blltrdr81
In reply to this post by Toyokatsu Hama
--- In [hidden email], "Toyokatsu Hama" <toyohama@...> wrote:

>
> Hello Enfielders,
>
> I have a question about one-way valve to the breather pipes (hoses?):
>
> Anyone put one-way (pressure) valve to breather pipe?
> 1) How effective is it?
> 2) My 2006 Bullet 350 has the three breather pipes as the pics show, all three (two yellow ones and one black one just behind the distributor body) go to the breather box (oil catch).
> 3) Should I put an one-way valve to each?
> 4) Where is a proper position to put? (near the oil catch?)
>
> Thank you for your advice in advance.
>
> Pics:
> http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9648/1oilcatch.jpg
> http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9108/1bhorse.jpg
>

 Toyokatsu Hama,It is very strange that you have two breathers. One coming out of your oil reservoir and the other on the side of your case just below the barrel. I would have to surmise that the hose coming from your oil reservoir is the stock one and the other hose on the side below the barrel was done during a rebuild. Now from what I have gather recently is the breather coming of the side is the original and best placement for the breather. The factory changed things up for some reason and changed the location of the breather to the rear of the motor coming out of the reservoir. I have seen a few posts on this forum stating that the hole from the crankcase is not of sufficient size to properly vent the crankcase. I would think that you could screw in a plug into the case on the rear one and put a vacuum cap on the drain to the timing chest and that would leave you with the one breather located on the side. You could use a duckbill hose or opt for some fancy one way valve. I saw a post on Hitchcock's site where a guy used a brake booster valve off a Volvo or something Anyway you have a lot more going on there than is necessary.

Good luck sorting it out.
Blltrdr


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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

malfisher500
In reply to this post by blltrdr81
--- In [hidden email], "blltrdr81" <mbrice81@...> wrote:

Malc, there is three. Some bikes came with a vent from the primary inner case that attatched to the catch can.
>
> Blltrdr
>

The primary inner case? Thats a new one on me Blltrdr. I even wonder why theyd vent the primary chain and clutch? What year are these bikes from? Ive only ever seen the 2 types, one has a breather from the side of the crankcase, and the newer ones (including Electra) have a breather from the top of the crankcase behind the barrell.

Malc

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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

williamjrice2000
In reply to this post by Toyokatsu Hama
Having looked at the photos, Toyokatsu, I would say yours is a one off modification attempting to develop a closed system. Oil vapour from the crankcase condensates in the collector can then drains back to the oil tank. When I think about it is a simple idea that possibly works.
Regards,
William in Oz

 --- In [hidden email], "Toyokatsu Hama" <toyohama@...> wrote:

>
> Hello Enfielders,
>
> I have a question about one-way valve to the breather pipes (hoses?):
>
> Anyone put one-way (pressure) valve to breather pipe?
> 1) How effective is it?
> 2) My 2006 Bullet 350 has the three breather pipes as the pics show, all three (two yellow ones and one black one just behind the distributor body) go to the breather box (oil catch).
> 3) Should I put an one-way valve to each?
> 4) Where is a proper position to put? (near the oil catch?)
>
> Thank you for your advice in advance.
>
> Pics:
> http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9648/1oilcatch.jpg
> http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/9108/1bhorse.jpg
>


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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

cjayheff
Toyokatsu,

I haven't followed this thread all the way through but if you are not having any problems with excessive oil blow then leave it along. Someone obviously did something different to your system and it looks to me like maybe they knew what they were doing. The newer factory oil return line from the catch can to the timing case does have a built in one way valve that prevents oil from backing up into the catch can.

Breather systems can be complicated, complex and problematic. So if yours is not giving you problems leave it as is.

CJay

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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

Pete Snidal
In reply to this post by Toyokatsu Hama
At 06:20 PM 5/10/2009, you wrote:
> > >Pete, thank you very much! You saved me buying a CD
> www.enfield.20m.com  :-)
>
> > There's a lot more in the CD than a picture of the vent system, Toyo! :-}
>
>My calling card that I give to riders I meet during touring by my
>Enfield says 'No occupation, No money, No address but a wife and the
>Enfield' :-) :-) I'll save pennies and buy a CD.

What a coincidence!  I had a hundred made a number of years ago that
I gave out when travelling
in our converted bus.  It said, "Sleepy Hollow Shipyard and Zen
Rocket Repair, and the corners said No Address No Phone No Job No
Money.  Of course, i'd usually end up scrawling my contact info on
the back.  This was pre-internet, so it'd be a phone number.

Those are the only two I've heard of!

btw, the photos you took of the catch can look good to me, and I'd
like to use them in my manual.
So if that's good for you, I'll be happy to mail you one off for half
price! - photographer's discount!  Oddly enough, it'll be the first
one I send to Japan.  Bahrain, yes, United Arab Emirates, sure, lots
to the UK of course, and all the Scandinavian countries, and even
Croatia.  Many to India.  But to Japan, this'll be a first!

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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

Toyokatsu Hama
In reply to this post by Toyokatsu Hama
blltrdr, CJay and William,

thanks for making a response to my questions.

Regards,

Toyo

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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

Toyokatsu Hama
In reply to this post by Pete Snidal
So ... I will be the first user in Japan :-)

I was wondering how many Enfield riders are in the world.
For the last one year since I bought the 2006 Bullet 350, I saw only two here except REOM (Royal Enfield Owners Meeting) held once a year in Tokyo where the Bullet riders get together from all over Japan.

Yup, that is quite a coincidence!

Toyo

--- In [hidden email], Pete Snidal <snidey@...> wrote:

>
> At 06:20 PM 5/10/2009, you wrote:
> > > >Pete, thank you very much! You saved me buying a CD
> > www.enfield.20m.com  :-)
> >
> > > There's a lot more in the CD than a picture of the vent system, Toyo! :-}
> >
> >My calling card that I give to riders I meet during touring by my
> >Enfield says 'No occupation, No money, No address but a wife and the
> >Enfield' :-) :-) I'll save pennies and buy a CD.
>
> What a coincidence!  I had a hundred made a number of years ago that
> I gave out when travelling
> in our converted bus.  It said, "Sleepy Hollow Shipyard and Zen
> Rocket Repair, and the corners said No Address No Phone No Job No
> Money.  Of course, i'd usually end up scrawling my contact info on
> the back.  This was pre-internet, so it'd be a phone number.
>
> Those are the only two I've heard of!
>
> btw, the photos you took of the catch can look good to me, and I'd
> like to use them in my manual.
> So if that's good for you, I'll be happy to mail you one off for half
> price! - photographer's discount!  Oddly enough, it'll be the first
> one I send to Japan.  Bahrain, yes, United Arab Emirates, sure, lots
> to the UK of course, and all the Scandinavian countries, and even
> Croatia.  Many to India.  But to Japan, this'll be a first!
>


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Re: Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

Hans Eberlein
In reply to this post by Toyokatsu Hama
Hi Malc,
 
My Bullet Electra 5S, 2009 has also a primary chaincase vent.
 
Cheers,
 
Hans in south Chile.

--- On Mon, 5/11/09, Malcolm Fisher <[hidden email]> wrote:


From: Malcolm Fisher <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Enfield] Re: oneway valve to breather pipe
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:43 AM








--- In royalenfield@ yahoogroups. com, "blltrdr81" <mbrice81@.. .> wrote:

Malc, there is three. Some bikes came with a vent from the primary inner case that attatched to the catch can.
>
> Blltrdr
>

The primary inner case? Thats a new one on me Blltrdr. I even wonder why theyd vent the primary chain and clutch? What year are these bikes from? Ive only ever seen the 2 types, one has a breather from the side of the crankcase, and the newer ones (including Electra) have a breather from the top of the crankcase behind the barrell.

Malc

















     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: oneway valve to breather pipe

Royalenfield
In reply to this post by Toyokatsu Hama
The set up on your motor is a home made adaption.
Due to problems associated with the original routing of the breather pipe post 2004, (the one from off the top of the oil tank), some have done as has been done to your motor to reopen the former breather line.

Plug off the one from under the barrel, it is not required, if you insist on staying with it make sure that it has a buck bill breather fitted in the line.

Make sure that you have the small 'duck bill' check valve inside the catch can.

Tim
N.Z.



-- In [hidden email], "Toyokatsu Hama" <toyohama@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Enfielders,
>
> I have a question about one-way valve to the breather pipes (hoses?):
>

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